4D 17.1 network issues

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4D 17.1 network issues

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Since I upgraded from 16.4 to 17.1 (all Mac), users have been complaining about 4D Client disconnects. Messages like:

"The current connection to the database has been disrupted. Connection error with the server. Please restart the application."

"Unknown Error. Connection error with the server. Please restart the application."

It is an all local single switch network with default timeouts. I experimented with changing timeouts, but it did not help.

The server hardware also changed (new 2018 Mac Mini), so I'm looking into that. One curious thing I noticed is the "Application Server" tab shows it to be listening on two IP addresses: 192.168.X.X and 169.254.X.X. The 192 address is expected and the only active network connection on the computer. Why would the server be listening on a 169 link-local address and where did that come from? I don't see that when I run the server on my laptop under the same operating system (10.14 Mojave).

Digging into it with Wireshark is next, but hoping someone might suggest an easier path.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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Hi John,

Just checking...

If you go to Apple menu, System Preferences on the mini, for Network do you see more than one green dot?  Each is separate network connection, where you can click Advanced and go to TCP/IP tab for details.  Is not unheard of for someone to set up Ethernet and Wi-Fi.

Back in System Preferences, Energy Saver, you probably want Prevent Computer From Sleeping on all computers, but especially server.  It is common for an upgrade of computer or system to reset this, to be green.

That said, be aware that 16.4 used New Networking only, which allows Clients to sleep.  It is possible, if you have the Compatibility checkbox (in 4D Server, File menu, Database Settings) set to Use Legacy Network Layer that this works in 17.1 and would cause the errors below if Clients did Sleep.  This checkbox would have no effect (and different text) in 16.4 and Clients could Sleep and wake no problem.  Maybe all you need is to uncheck this.

Hope this makes sense.

-Spencer



´╗┐On 4/24/19, 4:54 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of John DeSoi via 4D_Tech" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    Since I upgraded from 16.4 to 17.1 (all Mac), users have been complaining about 4D Client disconnects. Messages like:
   
    "The current connection to the database has been disrupted. Connection error with the server. Please restart the application."
   
    "Unknown Error. Connection error with the server. Please restart the application."
   
    It is an all local single switch network with default timeouts. I experimented with changing timeouts, but it did not help.
   
    The server hardware also changed (new 2018 Mac Mini), so I'm looking into that. One curious thing I noticed is the "Application Server" tab shows it to be listening on two IP addresses: 192.168.X.X and 169.254.X.X. The 192 address is expected and the only active network connection on the computer. Why would the server be listening on a 169 link-local address and where did that come from? I don't see that when I run the server on my laptop under the same operating system (10.14 Mojave).
   
    Digging into it with Wireshark is next, but hoping someone might suggest an easier path.
   
    John DeSoi, Ph.D.
   
   
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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
John,
did you turn off App Nap?
Chip

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:54:15 -0500, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech wrote:

> Since I upgraded from 16.4 to 17.1 (all Mac), users have been
> complaining about 4D Client disconnects. Messages like:
>
> "The current connection to the database has been disrupted.
> Connection error with the server. Please restart the application."
>
> "Unknown Error. Connection error with the server. Please restart the
> application."
>
> It is an all local single switch network with default timeouts. I
> experimented with changing timeouts, but it did not help.
>
> The server hardware also changed (new 2018 Mac Mini), so I'm looking
> into that. One curious thing I noticed is the "Application Server"
> tab shows it to be listening on two IP addresses: 192.168.X.X and
> 169.254.X.X. The 192 address is expected and the only active network
> connection on the computer. Why would the server be listening on a
> 169 link-local address and where did that come from? I don't see that
> when I run the server on my laptop under the same operating system
> (10.14 Mojave).
>
> Digging into it with Wireshark is next, but hoping someone might
> suggest an easier path.
>
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
>
>
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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
Hi Spencer,

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Spencer Hinsdale <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you go to Apple menu, System Preferences on the mini, for Network do you see more than one green dot?  Each is separate network connection, where you can click Advanced and go to TCP/IP tab for details.  Is not unheard of for someone to set up Ethernet and Wi-Fi.

No, just Ethernet is enabled. WiFi and the other connection types are not connected (red dot). But that just helped me answer the question. If I disable WiFi on my laptop, the server shows a 169.254.X.X link-local address. I wonder why and if that could be a source of problems.

It shows a red dot, "not connected", but it is active according to ifconfig:

en10: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        ether a6:e9:75:40:77:fa
        inet6 fe80::10be:87e1:3ea2:51c7%en10 prefixlen 64 secured scopeid 0x17
        inet 169.254.132.126 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 169.254.255.255
        nd6 options=201<PERFORMNUD,DAD>
        media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>)
        status: active

Even more interesting, you can highlight it and make it "Inactive" using the popup menu at the bottom of the list. Red dot disappears and it says "Inactive". But ifconfig still says it is active and the IP is still there when I restart the server.

>
> Back in System Preferences, Energy Saver, you probably want Prevent Computer From Sleeping on all computers, but especially server.  It is common for an upgrade of computer or system to reset this, to be green.

Yes, I have it setup that way. There is no monitor attached, so I also have no screen saver and set the display to not sleep. Just switched off App Nap last night, but I doubt that matters since it should never sleep.


>
> That said, be aware that 16.4 used New Networking only, which allows Clients to sleep.  It is possible, if you have the Compatibility checkbox (in 4D Server, File menu, Database Settings) set to Use Legacy Network Layer that this works in 17.1 and would cause the errors below if Clients did Sleep.  This checkbox would have no effect (and different text) in 16.4 and Clients could Sleep and wake no problem.  Maybe all you need is to uncheck this.

I switched to 64 bit only with version 16, so only the new network layer is in use.

I received a response off-line that stated similar problems and the issues were solved by upgrading to 17R3 or later. I hope there is a better solution.

In addition to the dropped connections, it has also been reported 4D will freeze up for a brief period and become unresponsive, then after about 15-20 seconds will begin responding again. No problems like this reported with 16.4 on the same network.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.
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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 4:06 PM John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> No, just Ethernet is enabled. WiFi and the other connection types are not
> connected (red dot). But that just helped me answer the question. If I
> disable WiFi on my laptop, the server shows a 169.254.X.X link-local
> address. I wonder why and if that could be a source of problems.
>
> It shows a red dot, "not connected", but it is active according to
> ifconfig:
>
> en10: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
>         ether a6:e9:75:40:77:fa
>         inet6 fe80::10be:87e1:3ea2:51c7%en10 prefixlen 64 secured scopeid
> 0x17
>         inet 169.254.132.126 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 169.254.255.255
>         nd6 options=201<PERFORMNUD,DAD>
>         media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>)
>         status: active
>
>

169.x.x.x seems like a self-assigned address,  could it be you have some
problem with DHCP?

--

Peter Bozek
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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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169.x.x.x is a self-assigned IP.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 4:06 PM John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> No, just Ethernet is enabled. WiFi and the other connection types are not
>> connected (red dot). But that just helped me answer the question. If I
>> disable WiFi on my laptop, the server shows a 169.254.X.X link-local
>> address. I wonder why and if that could be a source of problems.
>>
>> It shows a red dot, "not connected", but it is active according to
>> ifconfig:
>>
>> en10: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
>>        ether a6:e9:75:40:77:fa
>>        inet6 fe80::10be:87e1:3ea2:51c7%en10 prefixlen 64 secured scopeid
>> 0x17
>>        inet 169.254.132.126 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 169.254.255.255
>>        nd6 options=201<PERFORMNUD,DAD>
>>        media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>)
>>        status: active
>>
>>
>
> 169.x.x.x seems like a self-assigned address,  could it be you have some
> problem with DHCP?
>
> --
>
> Peter Bozek
> **********************************************************************
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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
It is a link-local address (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link-local_address), sometimes called self-assigned. There is nothing wrong with DHCP. As I mentioned in the previous message, you get this for WiFi on the Mac when Wifi is not connected or marked as inactivated. Seems strange, but hopefully it does not impact anything.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Apr 24, 2019, at 11:28 AM, Peter Bozek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 169.x.x.x seems like a self-assigned address,  could it be you have some problem with DHCP?

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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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A client of mine has hit this very issue. He writes:

>> In addition to the dropped connections, it has also been reported 4D
will freeze up for a brief period and become unresponsive, then after about
15-20 seconds will begin responding again. No problems like this reported
with 16.4 on the same network.<<



I can confirm this same issue on v17r3 on Windows 64 bit client and server
running Windows Server 12r2 Datacenter. In addition, the server will
refuse connection until somebody touches the server admin window at which
point it will accept connections again.


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902


On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 10:39 AM John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> It is a link-local address (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link-local_address), sometimes called
> self-assigned. There is nothing wrong with DHCP. As I mentioned in the
> previous message, you get this for WiFi on the Mac when Wifi is not
> connected or marked as inactivated. Seems strange, but hopefully it does
> not impact anything.
>
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
>
>
> > On Apr 24, 2019, at 11:28 AM, Peter Bozek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > 169.x.x.x seems like a self-assigned address,  could it be you have some
> problem with DHCP?
>
> **********************************************************************
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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
If it shows as active, that may be part of the problem. I found many
moons ago similar issues when one of my customers had new server with
to NIC cards. It seems what happens is that client connects to 1,
inactive for period of time, goes back and tries using 2, crash just
as you are having. There used to be terminal command to combine two
NICs into one on a MAC. Have you tried restarting the machine. You
should not have a real IP on ethernet connection and self assigned on
wifi. Something is not adding up

Regards
Chuck

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:28 PM Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 4:06 PM John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > No, just Ethernet is enabled. WiFi and the other connection types are not
> > connected (red dot). But that just helped me answer the question. If I
> > disable WiFi on my laptop, the server shows a 169.254.X.X link-local
> > address. I wonder why and if that could be a source of problems.
> >
> > It shows a red dot, "not connected", but it is active according to
> > ifconfig:
> >
> > en10: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
> >         ether a6:e9:75:40:77:fa
> >         inet6 fe80::10be:87e1:3ea2:51c7%en10 prefixlen 64 secured scopeid
> > 0x17
> >         inet 169.254.132.126 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 169.254.255.255
> >         nd6 options=201<PERFORMNUD,DAD>
> >         media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>)
> >         status: active
> >
> >
>
> 169.x.x.x seems like a self-assigned address,  could it be you have some
> problem with DHCP?
>
> --
>
> Peter Bozek
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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 Informed Solutions, Inc.
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       Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Server connectivity
          http://www.informed-solutions.com
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Re: 4D 17.1 network issues

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I set the WiFi to "Inactive" using the small popup at the bottom of the list and rebooted the computer. That removed it from the ifconfig list and the server no longer shows the self assigned IP.

I suspect the 4D 17 networking issues are related to computer sleep and/or the new network layer implementation of putting connections to sleep on the server after an inactivity timeout (the default is 20 seconds). I tested two changes over the past week:

- Prevent the computer from sleeping when 4D Client is running.

- Disable the connection inactivity timeout - SET DATABASE PARAMETER(Idle connections timeout;0).

The logs showed only one client session that was aborted. I also ran a client test for over a week that implemented delays on both the client and server side ranging from a minute to 2 hours. No issues.

I had previously tried setting Idle connections timeout to 5 minutes. That did not help, there were still aborted connections.

If this is not a 4D Server problem, I'm not sure what else could be done to fix it. There were no issues like this with 4D 16.4. This is a single switch network, no routers are involved. The switch is about 6 months old and has no configurable settings.


John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Apr 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If it shows as active, that may be part of the problem. I found many
> moons ago similar issues when one of my customers had new server with
> to NIC cards. It seems what happens is that client connects to 1,
> inactive for period of time, goes back and tries using 2, crash just
> as you are having. There used to be terminal command to combine two
> NICs into one on a MAC. Have you tried restarting the machine. You
> should not have a real IP on ethernet connection and self assigned on
> wifi. Something is not adding up
>
> Regards
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:28 PM Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 4:06 PM John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No, just Ethernet is enabled. WiFi and the other connection types are not
>>> connected (red dot). But that just helped me answer the question. If I
>>> disable WiFi on my laptop, the server shows a 169.254.X.X link-local
>>> address. I wonder why and if that could be a source of problems.
>>>
>>> It shows a red dot, "not connected", but it is active according to
>>> ifconfig:
>>>
>>> en10: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
>>>        ether a6:e9:75:40:77:fa
>>>        inet6 fe80::10be:87e1:3ea2:51c7%en10 prefixlen 64 secured scopeid
>>> 0x17
>>>        inet 169.254.132.126 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 169.254.255.255
>>>        nd6 options=201<PERFORMNUD,DAD>
>>>        media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>)
>>>        status: active
>>>
>>>
>

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