4D v16.2 false record locks

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4D v16.2 false record locks

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Has anyone who uses v16 run across false record locks being reported?

On two occasions now over the past 3 weeks, we've run across locked records where 4D reports that the user locking the record is not even signed in to 4D.

Locked Attributes seems to be giving the same information that 4D's user mode locked record dialog displays (which is good I guess), but since that user isn't even connected to the server there's nothing that can be done to resolve it, other than to restart the server.

Curious if anyone else has seen this?
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RE: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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I have not seen this, could it be that you use an execute on server and do not unload the record when you are done?


Neil








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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Not in these particular tables. We've never seen this happen before until v16 and now it's happened twice that we know of.

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Dennis, Neil <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have not seen this, could it be that you use an execute on server and do not unload the record when you are done?

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Hi Jeff,

Funny you should mention this. Just this morning I was thinking about the frozen process issue some of us have been experiencing and wondering if it could be a call to “Locked” that isn’t returning—just hanging. Does what you are seeing with record locks happen to line up with this possibility at all?

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> On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:10 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone who uses v16 run across false record locks being reported?
>
> On two occasions now over the past 3 weeks, we've run across locked records where 4D reports that the user locking the record is not even signed in to 4D.
>
> Locked Attributes seems to be giving the same information that 4D's user mode locked record dialog displays (which is good I guess), but since that user isn't even connected to the server there's nothing that can be done to resolve it, other than to restart the server.
>
> Curious if anyone else has seen this?

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Not in our case. The stored procedure that stopped running the other day doesn't access or lock any records, it just calls NEW LOG FILE in a loop (mirror backup).

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> On Sep 18, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Funny you should mention this. Just this morning I was thinking about the frozen process issue some of us have been experiencing and wondering if it could be a call to “Locked” that isn’t returning—just hanging. Does what you are seeing with record locks happen to line up with this possibility at all?

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Yes. In my case it is a single user merged application and in a long running "cron" process. No one else is using the database and no other process accessed the records. My error handler would randomly report the record was locked by process 0. I had to restart to fix it.

I don't think I have seen it in the last few weeks since upgrading from 16.1HF2 to 16.2.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.



> On Sep 18, 2017, at 9:10 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone who uses v16 run across false record locks being reported?
>
> On two occasions now over the past 3 weeks, we've run across locked records where 4D reports that the user locking the record is not even signed in to 4D.
>
> Locked Attributes seems to be giving the same information that 4D's user mode locked record dialog displays (which is good I guess), but since that user isn't even connected to the server there's nothing that can be done to resolve it, other than to restart the server.
>
> Curious if anyone else has seen this?

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Good to know. Thanks.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


> On Sep 18, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Not in our case. The stored procedure that stopped running the other day doesn't access or lock any records, it just calls NEW LOG FILE in a loop (mirror backup).

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
This has been a longstanding issue. When I first wrote Informed
RecordLock(tm) component in v11. Even after I put all tables in read only
mode, I could and did lock records using select with lock. Some remained
locked after process ended.

Regards

Chuck

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone who uses v16 run across false record locks being reported?
>
> On two occasions now over the past 3 weeks, we've run across locked
> records where 4D reports that the user locking the record is not even
> signed in to 4D.
>
> Locked Attributes seems to be giving the same information that 4D's user
> mode locked record dialog displays (which is good I guess), but since that
> user isn't even connected to the server there's nothing that can be done to
> resolve it, other than to restart the server.
>
> Curious if anyone else has seen this?
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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Jeffrey,

We have seen this in v13 (but I imagine it would work the same) any time a user has a record locked, for example in an Input Layout, and the Client crashes requiring a Ctl-Alt-Del. The lock on the record remains forever whether the User is logged in or not and only a restart of the Server can unlock the record.

Good Luck,
Kevin Abraham
Digital Retirement Solutions
[hidden email]

On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:10 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone who uses v16 run across false record locks being reported?
>
> On two occasions now over the past 3 weeks, we've run across locked records where 4D reports that the user locking the record is not even signed in to 4D.
>
> Locked Attributes seems to be giving the same information that 4D's user mode locked record dialog displays (which is good I guess), but since that user isn't even connected to the server there's nothing that can be done to resolve it, other than to restart the server.
>
> Curious if anyone else has seen this?
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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Hi Jeff,

FWIW. I had this once in one of the two sites running the same app. A few days after converting from v13 to v16. One user and his processes were still visible in the 4D admin window and there were two records (from different tables) locked. The user was out of the office. No way out. Processes could not be killed, user could not be disconnected.
The only solution was to shutdown and restart 4D Server.

I don’t know what happened. Probably the user did not log off correctly, but nevertheless having to shut down 4D Server is kinda drastical. One should be able to disconnect a user at any time and thus free the locked records.

HTH
Koen

> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone who uses v16 run across false record locks being reported?



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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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I am not on this version of 4D 15 or 16
but what about the client time out?
might this have an effect?

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:28:24 +0200, Koen Van Hooreweghe via 4D_Tech
wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> FWIW. I had this once in one of the two sites running the same app. A
> few days after converting from v13 to v16. One user and his processes
> were still visible in the 4D admin window and there were two records
> (from different tables) locked. The user was out of the office. No
> way out. Processes could not be killed, user could not be
> disconnected.
> The only solution was to shutdown and restart 4D Server.
>
> I don’t know what happened. Probably the user did not log off
> correctly, but nevertheless having to shut down 4D Server is kinda
> drastical. One should be able to disconnect a user at any time and
> thus free the locked records.
>
> HTH
> Koen
>
>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone who uses v16 run across false record locks being reported?
>
>
>
> --------------------
> Compass bvba
> Koen Van Hooreweghe
> Kloosterstraat 65
> 9910 Knesselare
> Belgium
> tel +32 495 511.653
>
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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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The client timeout will remove a dead user after that period of activity. In these cases, the user isn't even showing in the list of connected users on the server, yet 4D reports the lock in that user's name.

It's pretty weird. I guess others have seen this before, but it's new to me. I can understand a lock for a user that's still technically connected but non-responsive (crashed, hanged, etc.) but not if the server isn't even showing the user in the list.

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[hidden email]

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 10:00 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am not on this version of 4D 15 or 16
> but what about the client time out?
> might this have an effect?

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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> On Sep 19, 2017, at 8:03 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The client timeout will remove a dead user after that period of activity. In these cases, the user isn't even showing in the list of connected users on the server, yet 4D reports the lock in that user's name.


When I saw this earlier, it was a server process that was hanging on to the records, not a client process. As soon as I was careful to set tables to read only and unload locked records in my server processes and "execute on server" methods my problem went away.

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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If a record wasn't unloaded in trigger properly, the record would be locked even after the invoking client user left the system (no longer signed in). The only way is to restart the server.

Alan Chan

4D iNug Technical <[hidden email]> writes:
>The client timeout will remove a dead user after that period of activity. In these cases, the user isn't even showing in the list of connected users on the server, yet 4D reports the lock in that user's name.
>
>It's pretty weird. I guess others have seen this before, but it's new to me. I can understand a lock for a user that's still technically connected but non-responsive (crashed, hanged, etc.) but not if the server isn't even showing the user in the
>list.
>
>

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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On Sep 19, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Alan Chan wrote:

> If a record wasn't unloaded in trigger properly, the record would be locked even after the invoking client user left the system (no longer signed in). The only way is to restart the server.

This is a great point. I wonder if any of the users reporting this problem have triggers that are doing some “fancy stuff” that could be causing this.

But even in this situation, I think 4D should try to deal with this. Maybe they could add some code to 4D Server that runs periodically like a “Janitor” routine that checks the list of locked record — I’m sure 4D Server keeps a list of this somewhere internally — and if it finds a locked record that is not linked to a currently connected user, it unlocks it. That would fix this issue and not require a 4D Server restart.

Tim

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RE: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Having to restart the Server is a completely unacceptable solution for a "production" system.  There needs to be a way for 4D, Developer, or Administrator to deal with this...

Also, am I the only one who thinks the "locked" information returned is inaccurate?

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:22 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Tim Nevels <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

This is a great point. I wonder if any of the users reporting this problem have triggers that are doing some “fancy stuff” that could be causing this.

But even in this situation, I think 4D should try to deal with this. Maybe they could add some code to 4D Server that runs periodically like a “Janitor” routine that checks the list of locked record — I’m sure 4D Server keeps a list of this somewhere internally — and if it finds a locked record that is not linked to a currently connected user, it unlocks it. That would fix this issue and not require a 4D Server restart.

Tim

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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> On Sep 19, 2017, at 3:21 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If a record wasn't unloaded in trigger properly, the record would be locked even after the invoking client user left the system (no longer signed in). The only way is to restart the server.
>
> This is a great point. I wonder if any of the users reporting this problem have triggers that are doing some “fancy stuff” that could be causing this.

I still think there is a new bug in version 16, but I have not seen it happen again since upgrading to 16.2. This is a single user application with one process accessing the record. There is a trigger, but it just assigns one field and nothing else (no "fancy stuff").

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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In the case I mentioned, there were no triggers involved. No fancy stuff either. Just a record which is being automatically locked because it was opened in an input form.
But I don’t know how the user left the building…

Koen

> Op 19 sep. 2017, om 22:21 heeft Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
> This is a great point. I wonder if any of the users reporting this problem have triggers that are doing some “fancy stuff” that could be causing this.



--------------------
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Koen Van Hooreweghe
Kloosterstraat 65
9910 Knesselare
Belgium
tel +32 495 511.653

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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Hi Koen,

I think your case is very different and might be v16 issue as user was still on server list and you couldn't disconnet it.

The trigger issue (not actually an issue) I mentioned was the record was locked and the related user wasn't even on the server list.

Alan Chan

4D iNug Technical <[hidden email]> writes:
>In the case I mentioned, there were no triggers involved. No fancy stuff either. Just a record which is being automatically locked because it was opened in an input form.
>But I don’t know how the user left the building…
>
>Koen

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

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> On Sep 19, 2017, at 7:33 PM, John DeSoi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I still think there is a new bug in version 16, but I have not seen it happen again since upgrading to 16.2. This is a single user application with one process accessing the record. There is a trigger, but it just assigns one field and nothing else (no "fancy stuff").

I just encountered this in version 16.2 (Mac, single user merged application). The Locked function returns true, but LOCKED BY has empty values for everything. The record is only accessed by one process and never becomes unlocked even though it is repeatedly reloaded via subsequent queries.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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