Printing Structure Diagram

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Printing Structure Diagram

4D Tech mailing list
Hi All,

We are in the midst of analyzing a very old 4D application. We’d like to print/plot/PDF a structure diagram, in all it’s glory, to hang on the wall.  It must represent all structure elements such as Tables, Fields, Relations, Indexes, etc….  I have seen these diagrams for other platforms but I haven’t been successful in extracting such from 4D.  

Way back in the day I could print a tiled version of the structure from the Structure editor window but that print menu seems to be disabled (at least for me) in current versions of 4D.  Ideally I would like to export the database as xml or JASON and load it into another charting specific application to manipulate and print.  I just need to find the proper application (or 4D component/methods) that can consume the xml/JASON and provide the needed diagrams.

An example of what I am hoping for can be found in the top image of Vanessa Talbot’s 4D blog entry titled, “Detailed Analysis of Your Database Structure”  Here is the link if it is allowed on the Nug: "https://blog.4d.com/detailed-analysis-database-structure/“  Something, clean, clear, and readable.

FYI: We are on 4D v16R5 at the moment.  Moving to v17 soon.

Any help is appreciated!

Thank you!!
Kirk
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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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I too can not print the structure any more....

However, there are 2 options I easily found.
with the structure window open, select the 'File' menu.
 - Export -> Structure to xml
  and
- Export -> Structure to HTML

that should get you started.

Chip

> Hi All,
>
> We are in the midst of analyzing a very old 4D application. We’d
> like to print/plot/PDF a structure diagram, in all it’s glory, to
> hang on the wall.  It must represent all structure elements such as
> Tables, Fields, Relations, Indexes, etc….  I have seen these
> diagrams for other platforms but I haven’t been successful in
> extracting such from 4D.  
>
> Way back in the day I could print a tiled version of the structure
> from the Structure editor window but that print menu seems to be
> disabled (at least for me) in current versions of 4D.  Ideally I
> would like to export the database as xml or JASON and load it into
> another charting specific application to manipulate and print.  I
> just need to find the proper application (or 4D component/methods)
> that can consume the xml/JASON and provide the needed diagrams.
>
> An example of what I am hoping for can be found in the top image of
> Vanessa Talbot’s 4D blog entry titled, “Detailed Analysis of Your
> Database Structure”  Here is the link if it is allowed on the Nug:
> "https://blog.4d.com/detailed-analysis-database-structure/“ 
> Something, clean, clear, and readable.
>
> FYI: We are on 4D v16R5 at the moment.  Moving to v17 soon.
>
> Any help is appreciated!
>
> Thank you!!
> Kirk
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> **********************************************************************
------------
Hell is other people
     Jean-Paul Sartre
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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

4D Tech mailing list

Thank you Chip,

I am aware of the xml and html exports.  I have used the xml export for several purposes.  My question is, how do I get the printed visual structure digram I need using either of these.  Surely there are database schema [structure] diagram printing applications out there someplace that someone has used successfully.  I am also open to 4D based solutions.

Kirk


> On Mar 30, 2019, at 11:54 AM, Chip Scheide <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I too can not print the structure any more....
>
> However, there are 2 options I easily found.
> with the structure window open, select the 'File' menu.
> - Export -> Structure to xml
>  and
> - Export -> Structure to HTML
>
> that should get you started.
>
> Chip
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We are in the midst of analyzing a very old 4D application. We’d
>> like to print/plot/PDF a structure diagram, in all it’s glory, to
>> hang on the wall.  It must represent all structure elements such as
>> Tables, Fields, Relations, Indexes, etc….  I have seen these
>> diagrams for other platforms but I haven’t been successful in
>> extracting such from 4D.  
>>
>> Way back in the day I could print a tiled version of the structure
>> from the Structure editor window but that print menu seems to be
>> disabled (at least for me) in current versions of 4D.  Ideally I
>> would like to export the database as xml or JASON and load it into
>> another charting specific application to manipulate and print.  I
>> just need to find the proper application (or 4D component/methods)
>> that can consume the xml/JASON and provide the needed diagrams.
>>
>> An example of what I am hoping for can be found in the top image of
>> Vanessa Talbot’s 4D blog entry titled, “Detailed Analysis of Your
>> Database Structure”  Here is the link if it is allowed on the Nug:
>> "https://blog.4d.com/detailed-analysis-database-structure/“ 
>> Something, clean, clear, and readable.
>>
>> FYI: We are on 4D v16R5 at the moment.  Moving to v17 soon.
>>
>> Any help is appreciated!
>>
>> Thank you!!
>> Kirk
>> **********************************************************************
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
>> **********************************************************************
> ------------
> Hell is other people
>     Jean-Paul Sartre

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Re: Printing Structure Diagram (Somewhat O.T.).

4D Tech mailing list
In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
Your email reminds me that I have a whole lot of legacy,
Macintosh 4D applications software and accompanying manuals
complete with original 3-ring binders which I would like to
sell. I used to do a lot of 4D development but have gotten away
from it in recent years. I stopped purchasing updates in 2003.

This 4D material contains the full gamut of 1990 to 2003 4D
applications ranging from 4D itself to 4D Write, 4D Draw, 4D
whatever :) I own it.

I would like to sell it all if there is a market for it. Some
applications remain unopened and everything is in excellent
condition. The manuals alone contain a wealth of relational
database theory and I have lots of 3rd party 4D books as well.

Just wondering if anyone can advise me if there is any demand
for this material. I would like to see it go to a good use.

Thanks,

Jack


On 3/30/19, rooftop99--- via 4D_Tech said ……

>Hi All,
>
>We are in the midst of analyzing a very old 4D application.
>We’d like to print/plot/PDF a structure diagram, in all
>it’s glory, to hang on the wall.  It must represent all
>structure elements such as Tables, Fields, Relations, Indexes,
>etc….  I have seen these diagrams for other platforms but I
>haven’t been successful in extracting such from 4D.
>Way back in the day I could print a tiled version of the
>structure from the Structure editor window but that print menu
>seems to be disabled (at least for me) in current versions of
>4D.  Ideally I would like to export the database as xml or
>JASON and load it into another charting specific application to
>manipulate and print.  I just need to find the proper
>application (or 4D component/methods) that can consume the
>xml/JASON and provide the needed diagrams.
>
>An example of what I am hoping for can be found in the top
>image of Vanessa Talbot’s 4D blog entry titled, “Detailed
>Analysis of Your Database Structure”  Here is the link if it
>is allowed on the Nug:
>"https://blog.4d.com/detailed-analysis-database-structure/“ 
>Something, clean, clear, and readable.
>
>FYI: We are on 4D v16R5 at the moment.  Moving to v17 soon.
>
>Any help is appreciated!
>
>Thank you!!
>Kirk
>**********************************************************************
>4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
>**********************************************************************

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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

4D Tech mailing list
In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
Hi Kirk,
Check this out
https://github.com/miyako/4d-utility-structure-to-svg-converter


On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 1:06 PM rooftop99--- via 4D_Tech <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thank you Chip,
>
> I am aware of the xml and html exports.  I have used the xml export for
> several purposes.  My question is, how do I get the printed visual
> structure digram I need using either of these.  Surely there are database
> schema [structure] diagram printing applications out there someplace that
> someone has used successfully.  I am also open to 4D based solutions.
>
> Kirk
>
>
> > On Mar 30, 2019, at 11:54 AM, Chip Scheide <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I too can not print the structure any more....
> >
> > However, there are 2 options I easily found.
> > with the structure window open, select the 'File' menu.
> > - Export -> Structure to xml
> >  and
> > - Export -> Structure to HTML
> >
> > that should get you started.
> >
> > Chip
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> We are in the midst of analyzing a very old 4D application. We’d
> >> like to print/plot/PDF a structure diagram, in all it’s glory, to
> >> hang on the wall.  It must represent all structure elements such as
> >> Tables, Fields, Relations, Indexes, etc….  I have seen these
> >> diagrams for other platforms but I haven’t been successful in
> >> extracting such from 4D.
> >>
> >> Way back in the day I could print a tiled version of the structure
> >> from the Structure editor window but that print menu seems to be
> >> disabled (at least for me) in current versions of 4D.  Ideally I
> >> would like to export the database as xml or JASON and load it into
> >> another charting specific application to manipulate and print.  I
> >> just need to find the proper application (or 4D component/methods)
> >> that can consume the xml/JASON and provide the needed diagrams.
> >>
> >> An example of what I am hoping for can be found in the top image of
> >> Vanessa Talbot’s 4D blog entry titled, “Detailed Analysis of Your
> >> Database Structure”  Here is the link if it is allowed on the Nug:
> >> "https://blog.4d.com/detailed-analysis-database-structure/“
> >> Something, clean, clear, and readable.
> >>
> >> FYI: We are on 4D v16R5 at the moment.  Moving to v17 soon.
> >>
> >> Any help is appreciated!
> >>
> >> Thank you!!
> >> Kirk
> >> **********************************************************************
> >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> >> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> >> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> >> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> >> **********************************************************************
> > ------------
> > Hell is other people
> >     Jean-Paul Sartre
>
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> **********************************************************************



--
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
=======================

What can be said, can be said clearly,
and what you can’t say, you should shut up about

*Wittgenstein and the Computer *
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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
On Mar 30, 2019, at 2:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> We are in the midst of analyzing a very old 4D application. We’d like to print/plot/PDF a structure diagram, in all it’s glory, to hang on the wall.  It must represent all structure elements such as Tables, Fields, Relations, Indexes, etc….  I have seen these diagrams for other platforms but I haven’t been successful in extracting such from 4D.  
>
> Way back in the day I could print a tiled version of the structure from the Structure editor window but that print menu seems to be disabled (at least for me) in current versions of 4D.  Ideally I would like to export the database as xml or JASON and load it into another charting specific application to manipulate and print.  I just need to find the proper application (or 4D component/methods) that can consume the xml/JASON and provide the needed diagrams.
>
> An example of what I am hoping for can be found in the top image of Vanessa Talbot’s 4D blog entry titled, “Detailed Analysis of Your Database Structure”  Here is the link if it is allowed on the Nug: "https://blog.4d.com/detailed-analysis-database-structure/“  Something, clean, clear, and readable.
>
> FYI: We are on 4D v16R5 at the moment.  Moving to v17 soon.
>
> Any help is appreciated!

I’m not aware of anything that can do what you want. You may have to build it yourself.

The structure export to XML provides the coordinates for each table, so you could process that with some programming and create an SVG with a bunch of boxes representing each table. Then you’d have to fill in all the fields inside each box. Not too difficult. The tricky part is drawing the relation lines. All the data is there, but drawing lines like you see in the structure window would be an interesting challenge.

I decided to see what it took to create a printed copy of what you see in the structure editor. Like what you used to be able to do in previous version of 4D. I got it done, but it’s a multistep brute-force approach.

The structure file I was using for this test has all the tables laid out to not overlap. Related tables are near the one table so relation lines are readable and traceable. If your structure window is a fricking mess with tables piled upon each other and relation lines going all over the place, the method below will just print out your fricking mess. But if you have an organized structure window, here is how you can create a giant image file that you can print out in tiles. Grab scissors and glue stick and create your giant printout of your structure.

In my example it resulted in 15 image files. The final, big .png image file was 9,006 x 8,110 pixels and 13MB in size.  Then printed at 200% “Tile scale” it created 8 pages on 8.5" x 11” paper — 4 pages by 2 pages .

Here are the notes I made to accomplish this:

- Set Structure window background to white
        - Right-click in open area and choose “Structure Properties”
        - Set “Fill Color” to white
- Capture images of structure
        - Open structure window and expand to as big as possible
        - Move to top left corner
        - Take horizontal band pictures
                - Take picture of window (⌘⇧4 then hold down space bar and click on structure window)
                - Click horizontal scrollbar in the right size “page” area to move over 1 full screen page to the right
                - Repeat until you have moved horizontal scrollbar all the way to the right and taken pictures each time
        - Move to top left corner again
        - Click vertical scrollbar to move 1 full screen down
        - Take horizontal band pictures (see above)
        - Repeat going down until you have taken pictures of all of the structure window
        - Doing it this way you have every image the exact same size. Makes it easier to de-tile them and create a single, big image.
- Crop images to remove window frame
        - Should be able to create Automator to do this with Acorn, but couldn’t get it to work
        - I used BatchCrop to do the work
                - x = 0, y = 67, width = 4063, height = 1961
        - Need to special crop all images in the final column at the right so the match previous column
        - Need to special crop all images in the final row so they match previous row
- Combine images into a single big image with 4D method

        C_TEXT($folderPath_t;$fileName_t)
        ARRAY TEXT($fileName_at;0)
        C_LONGINT($index;$i;$j;$imagesPerRow_l;$numRows_l)
        C_PICTURE($emptyImage_c;$rowImage_c;$finalImage_c)
       
        $numRows_l:=5
        $imagesPerRow_l:=3
       
          // folder of structure images
        $folderPath_t:=System folder(Desktop)+"cropped"+Folder separator
       
          // load files names in folder
        DOCUMENT LIST($folderPath_t;$fileName_at;Ignore invisible)
       
          // sort by name
        SORT ARRAY($fileName_at;>)
       
          // create a single big image
          // process rows
        For ($i;1;$numRows_l)
                  // init row image
                $rowImage_c:=$emptyImage_c
                  // process images in the row
                For ($j;1;$imagesPerRow_l)
                          // set file name array index
                        $index:=$index+1
                          // get file name
                        $fileName_t:=$fileName_at{$index}
                          // load image
                        READ PICTURE FILE($folderPath_t+$fileName_t;$image_c)
                          // add image to row image
                        COMBINE PICTURES($rowImage_c;$rowImage_c;Horizontal concatenation;$image_c)
                End for
               
                  // add row image to final image
                COMBINE PICTURES($finalImage_c;$finalImage_c;Vertical concatenation;$rowImage_c)
        End for
       
          // write new picture to file
        WRITE PICTURE FILE($folderPath_t+"Big Picture.png";$finalImage_c)

- Open in Preview and Export to PDF
- Open PDF in Acrobat Reader
        - Select Print
        - Click on “Poster” in “Page Size & Handling”
        - Set “Tile Scale” to a value that give you the size you want (maybe 200% or 300% for big structures)
                - Look at the preview area to the right and it shows how many pages it will take to print
        - Turn on “Cut marks” and “Labels” to help you arrange all the pages
        - Print

Tim

*****************************************
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
[hidden email]
*****************************************

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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
you should note that native XSLT is removed in 64-bit

so you need to either use a 32-bit or an alternative solution such as

https://github.com/miyako/console-xsltproc

or

https://github.com/miyako/4d-plugin-xslt

> 2019/03/31 8:29、Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>のメール:
> Check this out
> https://github.com/miyako/4d-utility-structure-to-svg-converter




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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
alternatively,
you create a form with one picture object,
sized to fit your paper size.

you use TRANSFORM PICTURE with the Translate option
which allows you to "trim" the SVG at any location without bitmap resampling (which is what happens when you convert to PNG or combine pictures).
you print a page, then TRANSFORM PICTURE + Reset and move to the next region.

> 2019/03/31 9:57、Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>のメール:
> In my example it resulted in 15 image files. The final, big .png image file was 9,006 x 8,110 pixels and 13MB in size.  Then printed at 200% “Tile scale” it created 8 pages on 8.5" x 11” paper — 4 pages by 2 pages .




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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
Per other responses, the XML file provides a lot of data about the schema
as well as its graphic representation. SVG is an option or using the Adobe
PDF page description language if you want to write your own software.

One avenue to explore for an off the shelf answer is Excel Software
<http://www.excelsoftware.com>. They have had a suite of software
engineering applications that work on Mac and Windows since at least the
early 90's. They could well have a product that will inhale an XML document
and display it in a GUI.

I've used their software design tools. They're not cheap but I found them
quite to be worth the price.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902


On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 5:58 PM Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> you should note that native XSLT is removed in 64-bit
>
> so you need to either use a 32-bit or an alternative solution such as
>
> https://github.com/miyako/console-xsltproc
>
> or
>
> https://github.com/miyako/4d-plugin-xslt
>
> > 2019/03/31 8:29、Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>のメール:
> > Check this out
> > https://github.com/miyako/4d-utility-structure-to-svg-converter
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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I suppose it is possible to generate a PDF directly using something like

https://github.com/miyako/4d-plugin-haru

since there seems to be all the basic shapes and lines that are used in the SVG example

https://github.com/miyako/4d-plugin-haru/tree/master/Haru/examples

but no time to do it myself...


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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list

> Le 30 mars 2019 à 21:05, rooftop99--- via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>
> Thank you Chip,
>
> I am aware of the xml and html exports.  I have used the xml export for several purposes.  My question is, how do I get the printed visual structure digram I need using either of these.  Surely there are database schema [structure] diagram printing applications out there someplace that someone has used successfully.  I am also open to 4D based solutions.

See this Vincent's contribution:
<https://forums.4d.com/Post/FR/2634499/1/2634860#2634860>

--
Arnaud de Montard



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Re: Printing Structure Diagram (Somewhat O.T.).

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
you need to find someone who needs a boat anchor


On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:35 PM Jack Stewart via 4D_Tech
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Your email reminds me that I have a whole lot of legacy,
> Macintosh 4D applications software and accompanying manuals
> complete with original 3-ring binders which I would like to
> sell. I used to do a lot of 4D development but have gotten away
> from it in recent years. I stopped purchasing updates in 2003.
>
> This 4D material contains the full gamut of 1990 to 2003 4D
> applications ranging from 4D itself to 4D Write, 4D Draw, 4D
> whatever :) I own it.
>
> I would like to sell it all if there is a market for it. Some
> applications remain unopened and everything is in excellent
> condition. The manuals alone contain a wealth of relational
> database theory and I have lots of 3rd party 4D books as well.
>
> Just wondering if anyone can advise me if there is any demand
> for this material. I would like to see it go to a good use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jack
>
>
> On 3/30/19, rooftop99--- via 4D_Tech said ……
>
> >Hi All,
> >
> >We are in the midst of analyzing a very old 4D application.
> >We’d like to print/plot/PDF a structure diagram, in all
> >it’s glory, to hang on the wall.  It must represent all
> >structure elements such as Tables, Fields, Relations, Indexes,
> >etc….  I have seen these diagrams for other platforms but I
> >haven’t been successful in extracting such from 4D.
> >Way back in the day I could print a tiled version of the
> >structure from the Structure editor window but that print menu
> >seems to be disabled (at least for me) in current versions of
> >4D.  Ideally I would like to export the database as xml or
> >JASON and load it into another charting specific application to
> >manipulate and print.  I just need to find the proper
> >application (or 4D component/methods) that can consume the
> >xml/JASON and provide the needed diagrams.
> >
> >An example of what I am hoping for can be found in the top
> >image of Vanessa Talbot’s 4D blog entry titled, “Detailed
> >Analysis of Your Database Structure”  Here is the link if it
> >is allowed on the Nug:
> >"https://blog.4d.com/detailed-analysis-database-structure/“
> >Something, clean, clear, and readable.
> >
> >FYI: We are on 4D v16R5 at the moment.  Moving to v17 soon.
> >
> >Any help is appreciated!
> >
> >Thank you!!
> >Kirk
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Re: Printing Structure Diagram (Somewhat O.T.).

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Charles Miller via 4D_Tech wrote:

>you need to find someone who needs a boat anchor

I use my nubby box as a door stop. Very useful.

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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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Hi,

In QS_Toolbox, I've implemented the Vincent solution.
You can view inside the component the diagram and also export it as picture.

Have a look here: association-qualisoft.eu



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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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Salut Patrick

Am 18.04.2019 um 08:45 schrieb Patrick Emanuel via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>:
>
> In QS_Toolbox, I've implemented the Vincent solution.
> You can view inside the component the diagram and also export it as picture.

nice, but a tad blurry for a large strcuture, actually nothing is readable.
Is there a setting somewhere to define the size and resolution of the picture created?

Merci
A+
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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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perhaps you could take the printing portion from this one:

https://github.com/miyako/4d-utility-structure-to-svg-converter-v2

SVG is scalable and vectorial,
but some picture commands would rasterise it.
so don't do that.

2019/05/07 6:59、Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>のメール:
nice, but a tad blurry for a large strcuture, actually nothing is readable.
Is there a setting somewhere to define the size and resolution of the picture created?



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Re: Printing Structure Diagram

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Bonjour Alexander

QS_Toolbox source is opened, that mean you have access to the code.
If you have a look on the method 'TOOLS_Export_Drawn_Structure', you'll see
the picture is resized to fit the screen and the export is in JPG
I you just want to get the SVG file without any resizing, you just have to
use these code lines (not tested):

C_TEXT($vTStruc;$1;$NomImage)
$NomImage:="myStructurePictureFile"
EXPORT STRUCTURE($vTStruc)
TEXT TO DOCUMENT("myStructure.xml";$vTStruc)
$ScreenShot:=SUPPORT_Draw_Structure ("myStructure.xml") // without second
parameter => SVG file
DELETE DOCUMENT("myStructure.xml")
WRITE PICTURE FILE($NomImage;$ScreenShot;".svg")


Let me know :)

Patrick





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