Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

4D Tech mailing list
I'm looking for suggestions to address the new US sales tax law and the
requirement for calculating sales tax across all states and jurisdictions. I
have done sales tax calculations for some clients with a physical presence
in a couple of states, and that is manageable. Trying to keep up with tax
laws in all states and counties, seems unmanageable, kinda like a 50 state
payroll system.  

Has anyone done this directly in 4D? have you integrated 4D with a cloud
SaaS tax service?  Can regularly updated sales tax "tables" be purchased
from third parties?

There's so little traffic on the 4D board about "sales tax" that it must be
given there's readily available solutions for tax calculation.

Thanks for the ideas

Dan Ivy
ivyleaf systems
birmingham al



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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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I talked to this service via 4D. Best API I’ve dealt with aside from maybe Stripe.

https://www.taxjar.com/ <https://www.taxjar.com/>


> On Aug 16, 2018, at 9:28 AM, Dan Ivy via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for suggestions to address the new US sales tax law and the
> requirement for calculating sales tax across all states and jurisdictions. I
> have done sales tax calculations for some clients with a physical presence
> in a couple of states, and that is manageable. Trying to keep up with tax
> laws in all states and counties, seems unmanageable, kinda like a 50 state
> payroll system.  
>
> Has anyone done this directly in 4D? have you integrated 4D with a cloud
> SaaS tax service?  Can regularly updated sales tax "tables" be purchased
> from third parties?
>
> There's so little traffic on the 4D board about "sales tax" that it must be
> given there's readily available solutions for tax calculation.
>
> Thanks for the ideas
>
> Dan Ivy
> ivyleaf systems
> birmingham al
>
>

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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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That's a great tip.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 10:20 AM Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I talked to this service via 4D. Best API I’ve dealt with aside from maybe
> Stripe.
>
> https://www.taxjar.com/ <https://www.taxjar.com/>
>
>
> > On Aug 16, 2018, at 9:28 AM, Dan Ivy via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for suggestions to address the new US sales tax law and the
> > requirement for calculating sales tax across all states and
> jurisdictions. I
> > have done sales tax calculations for some clients with a physical
> presence
> > in a couple of states, and that is manageable. Trying to keep up with tax
> > laws in all states and counties, seems unmanageable, kinda like a 50
> state
> > payroll system.
> >
> > Has anyone done this directly in 4D? have you integrated 4D with a cloud
> > SaaS tax service?  Can regularly updated sales tax "tables" be purchased
> > from third parties?
> >
> > There's so little traffic on the 4D board about "sales tax" that it must
> be
> > given there's readily available solutions for tax calculation.
> >
> > Thanks for the ideas
> >
> > Dan Ivy
> > ivyleaf systems
> > birmingham al
> >
> >
>
> **********************************************************************
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=======================

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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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We integrated with Avalara.

Should have bought their stock before the Supreme Court ruling on sales tax... lol

> On Aug 16, 2018, at 4:16 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That's a great tip.
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 10:20 AM Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I talked to this service via 4D. Best API I’ve dealt with aside from maybe
>> Stripe.
>>
>> https://www.taxjar.com/ <https://www.taxjar.com/>
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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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Jeff,
What do they cost?

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 2:26 PM Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> We integrated with Avalara.
>
> Should have bought their stock before the Supreme Court ruling on sales
> tax... lol
>
> > On Aug 16, 2018, at 4:16 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > That's a great tip.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 10:20 AM Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I talked to this service via 4D. Best API I’ve dealt with aside from
> maybe
> >> Stripe.
> >>
> >> https://www.taxjar.com/ <https://www.taxjar.com/>
> **********************************************************************
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> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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San Francisco, CA
=======================

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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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Probably all negotiated individually...

> On Aug 16, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What do they cost?

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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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So kinda pricey?


On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 8:07 PM Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Probably all negotiated individually...
>
> > On Aug 16, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > What do they cost?
>
> **********************************************************************
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San Francisco, CA
=======================

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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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Not compared to filing sales tax in every tax jurisdiction in every state (eventually) every month ourselves...

> On Aug 17, 2018, at 1:00 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So kinda pricey?
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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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Just wondering...

I know that there are a **stupid** number of sales tax zones, and
exceptions in each zone
i.e in Pa - where I live - clothing, (most) groceries, and necessities
are sales tax exempt; however (and there is always at least one) some
clothing (sports specific are NOT exempt), Pepsi and prepared foods
(rotisserie chicken) are not exempt... etc etc etc.

and yeah it would be a an F-ing nightmare to try to manage these -- so
yes let someone else do it --  BUT -
do these things really change that much  day to day, or month to month
- or even year to year?
in PA the only changes (that I am aware of)
- 2 'special' areas of an additional 1% sales tax (Allegheny County,
and Phillidelphia county) and both of these have been in place for
decades.
- 'Cyber Monday' - when ever that is, in which electronics are tax
exempt, and this has been in place for at least a decade if not 2


On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:25:58 -0400, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech wrote:

> Not compared to filing sales tax in every tax jurisdiction in every
> state (eventually) every month ourselves...
>
>> On Aug 17, 2018, at 1:00 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So kinda pricey?
> **********************************************************************
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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
Thank you for that lead on the sales tax service!  I will check this out.



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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
Thank you for this tip!
Dan Ivy
ivyleaf systems

<quote author='4D Tech mailing list'>
I talked to this service via 4D. Best API I’ve dealt with aside from maybe
Stripe.

https://www.taxjar.com/ <https://www.taxjar.com/>


> On Aug 16, 2018, at 9:28 AM, Dan Ivy via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for suggestions to address the new US sales tax law and the
> requirement for calculating sales tax across all states and jurisdictions.
> I
> have done sales tax calculations for some clients with a physical presence
> in a couple of states, and that is manageable. Trying to keep up with tax
> laws in all states and counties, seems unmanageable, kinda like a 50 state
> payroll system.  
>
> Has anyone done this directly in 4D? have you integrated 4D with a cloud
> SaaS tax service?  Can regularly updated sales tax "tables" be purchased
> from third parties?
>
> There's so little traffic on the 4D board about "sales tax" that it must
> be
> given there's readily available solutions for tax calculation.
>
> Thanks for the ideas
>
> Dan Ivy
> ivyleaf systems
> birmingham al
>
>

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</quote>
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Re: Sales Tax Solutions for 4D

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In reply to this post by 4D Tech mailing list
Yeah, it is a really difficult issue. Here in California you have the same
sorts of distinctions. In our industry (construction) there are also
distinctions with how the item is sold: if it's included in a lumpsum
contract (we will install this widget for this price) there is no sales tax
but the company is liable for use tax (completely different). However, if
you walk into a showroom and buy the same widget to install yourself there
is sales tax. Oh, except some types of items are charged sales tax
regardless of how they are sold (eg. fixtures: anything that is not
permanently attached to the structure) and in the case of a contract the
tax is calculated on, and payable to, the locale where the JOB is located -
not where your company or the widget is located. And each locale can have
different rates, special assessments, etc. Oh, but items sold and installed
under a time & material basis (we sell you the widget and charge $x/hr to
do the install) are always charged sales tax. There's also the difference
in sales tax generally being a liability (because it's technically
collected and held on behalf of the taxing authority) and use tax being a
business expense (because it's levied on the company as a cost of doing
business) but that's usually relevant further up the accounting ladder.

OTOH - we've been audited by the tax board a few times over the years and
not once did they care about how accurately, or not, taxes were being
reported for each locality. They cared about the big numbers, not the small
ones. I was frankly surprised but 'auditor' is not my job and I'm cynical
enough as it is.

After working out a system to accommodate California I really cringe at the
thought of trying to manage it nationally. Even in our case the tax has to
be calculated on an item by item basis because of the various factors that
come into play. Factors like the date - sales tax is due when the sale
takes place. Rates can change during the course of a given job and they can
change between the time a bid is offered and accepted. If one has an
invoice interface that allows the date to change, or items to be moved from
one invoice to another, this creates issues.

"Why can't I just change the date on an invoice? What's so hard about
that?" Because.

I suspect what's going to happen is some element of standardization.
Similar to how the finance industry has 'streamlined' or 'channeled' the
vast number of transactions into consistent data structures for basically
the same reasons - the majority of agents in a transaction simply want to
get paid. To facilitate this some standards or 'best practices' will
emerge. If these are predominantly written by business it will be less good
for municipalities, I suspect, but easier for folks like us.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 7:12 AM Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just wondering...
>
> I know that there are a **stupid** number of sales tax zones, and
> exceptions in each zone
> i.e in Pa - where I live - clothing, (most) groceries, and necessities
> are sales tax exempt; however (and there is always at least one) some
> clothing (sports specific are NOT exempt), Pepsi and prepared foods
> (rotisserie chicken) are not exempt... etc etc etc.
>
> and yeah it would be a an F-ing nightmare to try to manage these -- so
> yes let someone else do it --  BUT -
> do these things really change that much  day to day, or month to month
> - or even year to year?
> in PA the only changes (that I am aware of)
> - 2 'special' areas of an additional 1% sales tax (Allegheny County,
> and Phillidelphia county) and both of these have been in place for
> decades.
> - 'Cyber Monday' - when ever that is, in which electronics are tax
> exempt, and this has been in place for at least a decade if not 2
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:25:58 -0400, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech wrote:
> > Not compared to filing sales tax in every tax jurisdiction in every
> > state (eventually) every month ourselves...
> >
> >> On Aug 17, 2018, at 1:00 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> So kinda pricey?
> > **********************************************************************
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
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> ---------------
> Gas is for washing parts
> Alcohol is for drinkin'
> Nitromethane is for racing
> **********************************************************************
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> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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=======================

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