Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Server Process "Frozen"-ish

4D Tech mailing list
I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits.

By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months.

By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process.

I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give me a starting place to look?

Thanks.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


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RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Cannon,

I can provide only antidotal information, but we too are seeing something like this.  We happen to be using V15 R5, which is basically V16, however since upgrading to it we have seen A LOT of server related issues that we have never encountered before.  The code ran just fine in V13...


Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <[hidden email]>
Cc: Cannon Smith <[hidden email]>
Subject: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits.

By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months.

By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process.

I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give me a starting place to look?

Thanks.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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We started seeing the same problem when we upgraded to v15R5 too.  A process that ran for years on older versions just like Cannon described just stopped doing it’s thing.  A reboot resolves it.  We are seeing it on 32 bit server Mac & Windows.

Thanks!

David Conley
By The Book, Inc.
Office: 815-234-7530
Direct Line: 815-406-5502
Fax: 815-234-7532
http://www.bythebook.com




> On Sep 8, 2017, at 4:13 PM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Cannon,
>
> I can provide only antidotal information, but we too are seeing something like this.  We happen to be using V15 R5, which is basically V16, however since upgrading to it we have seen A LOT of server related issues that we have never encountered before.  The code ran just fine in V13...
>








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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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I jumped from v15.x where it was working fine to v16.1. Since you’re at v15 r5, maybe it was something that was introduced in one of the v15 R releases.

I haven’t posted anything before because I don’t have much that is concrete, but it has happened enough to know something is going on.

Thanks.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


> On Sep 8, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Stephen J. Orth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I can provide only antidotal information, but we too are seeing something like this.  We happen to be using V15 R5, which is basically V16, however since upgrading to it we have seen A LOT of server related issues that we have never encountered before.  The code ran just fine in V13...

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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Hi David,

How about timing? Just once every two-three months per server like us?

Thanks.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


> On Sep 8, 2017, at 3:19 PM, BTB-David via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We started seeing the same problem when we upgraded to v15R5 too.  A process that ran for years on older versions just like Cannon described just stopped doing it’s thing.  A reboot resolves it.  We are seeing it on 32 bit server Mac & Windows.

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RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Cannon,

I'm in the same boat.  I cannot provide enough information to support a 4D TS case, but something is not right...stability has gone to hell.  I've gone from using 2004 which was rock solid, to progressively less stable conditions, to where now with V15 R5 I literally have someone logging into every one of our customers server on a daily basis, just to catch any issues.

I'm trying to see if we can move to V16.2 and hope this is better?


Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Cannon Smith [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 4:23 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <[hidden email]>
Cc: Stephen J. Orth <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

I jumped from v15.x where it was working fine to v16.1. Since you’re at v15 r5, maybe it was something that was introduced in one of the v15 R releases.

I haven’t posted anything before because I don’t have much that is concrete, but it has happened enough to know something is going on.

Thanks.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>



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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Steve,

I am seeing it in v15R5 as well as v16.0 build 16.209177.  We plan on our next release to be on v16.2 but we’re not there yet.

Thanks!

David Conley
By The Book, Inc.
Office: 815-234-7530
Direct Line: 815-406-5502
Fax: 815-234-7532
http://www.bythebook.com




> On Sep 8, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Stephen J. Orth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> David, <>
>  
> Have you upgraded to the official V16 version (V16, V16.1, or V16.2) and has this problem stayed, or gone away?
>  








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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Cannon,

I would say about that yes.  We have several server processes and only one gets called to our attention for not working.  No one complains about the others and I haven’t looked into it to see if they have stopped too and no one noticed or if they are still happily working.  I’ve been meaning to spend some time looking at it and haven’t had a chance yet.

Thanks!

David Conley
By The Book, Inc.
Office: 815-234-7530
Direct Line: 815-406-5502
Fax: 815-234-7532
http://www.bythebook.com




> On Sep 8, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> How about timing? Just once every two-three months per server like us?
>








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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Okay. I guess it’s nice to know I’m not the only one seeing this. Sorry for you guys, though! :-)

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


> On Sep 8, 2017, at 3:33 PM, BTB-David <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I would say about that yes.  We have several server processes and only one gets called to our attention for not working.  No one complains about the others and I haven’t looked into it to see if they have stopped too and no one noticed or if they are still happily working.  I’ve been meaning to spend some time looking at it and haven’t had a chance yet.
>

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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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On Sep 8, 2017, at 23:22, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I jumped from v15.x where it was working fine to v16.1. Since you’re at v15 r5, maybe it was something that was introduced in one of the v15 R releases.

Are you using GRAPH command in that process? I handled one case where in 64 bit GRAPH caused a freeze, fixed in 16.2.

Milan
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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Hi Milan,

Thanks for the idea, but no, I’m not using GRAPH anywhere.

It isn’t just one particular process that does this, either. I’ve seen three different processes do it—all three different code paths. One just updates a bunch of records, one checks with a web service for a small piece of information, and the third one (different product) also updates a bunch of records.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


> On Sep 9, 2017, at 12:38 AM, Milan Adamov via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Are you using GRAPH command in that process? I handled one case where in 64 bit GRAPH caused a freeze, fixed in 16.2.

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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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New network layer on both platforms?

> On Sep 8, 2017, at 5:05 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms.

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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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On Sep 8, 2017, at 5:05 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits.
>
> By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months.
>
> By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process.

This was happening in a system I upgraded to v16, relatively often. I never really narrowed down the cause, but after going through the code that executed, some rewriting, and explicitly handling locked records (i.e. making sure a record was loaded read-write before modifying and saving), the problem went away.

Jim Crate

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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Cannon Smith:

> I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits.
>
> By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months.
>
> By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process.
>
> I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give me a starting place to look?


Same here. 4D V16.1 32 Bit on OS X 10.11.6.
A background process does some reporting, sends and receives mails, etc.
Every once in a while it just stops. No idea why. At least I am not the only one.
Now we just have to find what is common on all our servers...

Greetings from Germany,
Bernd Fröhlich
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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Hi,

We have run into issues where the server is running on windows 64bit and it is producing PDFs using PDF Creator directly. Our solution was to move away from doing that and using php and FPDF to create the PDFs instead.

Dani


> On Sep 11, 2017, at 12:43 AM, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Cannon Smith:
>
>> I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits.
>>
>> By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months.
>>
>> By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process.
>>
>> I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give me a starting place to look?
>
>
> Same here. 4D V16.1 32 Bit on OS X 10.11.6.
> A background process does some reporting, sends and receives mails, etc.
> Every once in a while it just stops. No idea why. At least I am not the only one.
> Now we just have to find what is common on all our servers...
>
> Greetings from Germany,
> Bernd Fröhlich
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Old network layer on the Windows platform. That’s where most of it is happening. There is about 35 servers involved.

New network layer on the Mac platform (different product). Just one server—it’s just an in house database.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


> On Sep 10, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> New network layer on both platforms?

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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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I have server side processes that run in the background. Because i like to start as little as necessary at startup my code ‘automatically’ starts the process.

So in my code(where it writes the jobs into a table for the server to process). After the client side(or server side) has written a task it calls.

$_L_PostActionProcesser:=Execute on server("DATA_BackgroundRecordHandler";128000;"Post Save Data Processor";True;*)

That makes sure the process is running.

Now I know the process should not quit-but you never know what might happen. I have not come across it quitting for no reason but i have come across reasons to ‘end’ the process. The above ‘solution’ makes sure it is running(and avoids starting it at startup on the server).

Just a workaround suggestion..

Nigel Greenlee.




> On 11 Sep 2017, at 07:43, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Cannon Smith:
>
>> I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits.
>>
>> By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months.
>>
>> By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process.
>>
>> I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give me a starting place to look?
>
>
> Same here. 4D V16.1 32 Bit on OS X 10.11.6.
> A background process does some reporting, sends and receives mails, etc.
> Every once in a while it just stops. No idea why. At least I am not the only one.
> Now we just have to find what is common on all our servers...
>
> Greetings from Germany,
> Bernd Fröhlich
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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Hi Nigel,

Thanks for the idea. I did try that before to see if I could jumpstart the process, but unfortunately it doesn’t work. 4D thinks the process is already there. And it it there. It just doesn’t seem to be executing.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
<[hidden email]>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>


> On Sep 13, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> $_L_PostActionProcesser:=Execute on server("DATA_BackgroundRecordHandler";128000;"Post Save Data Processor";True;*)
>
> That makes sure the process is running.
>
> Now I know the process should not quit-but you never know what might happen. I have not come across it quitting for no reason but i have come across reasons to ‘end’ the process. The above ‘solution’ makes sure it is running(and avoids starting it at startup on the server).
>
> Just a workaround suggestion..
>

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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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> Le 13 sept. 2017 à 18:46, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> [...]
>
> Just a workaround suggestion..

I use something very similar (a table describing what job to do + when to start). From the ages were I understood that I was unable to write an error free stored procedure.

--
Arnaud



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RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

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I've given up trying to write and use stored procedures, the Server is just too fragile.  I'd be open to anyone telling me you can really use stored procedures in a "hard core" way without completely killing all connected users performance.

For years now, with each new release of 4D, I've been patiently waiting for my opportunity to really utilize the power of the server hardware our Clients purchase.  However, each new version I continue to find it is not robust enough to really use stored procedures.


Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 3:34 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <[hidden email]>
Cc: Arnaud de Montard <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish


> Le 13 sept. 2017 à 18:46, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> [...]
>
> Just a workaround suggestion..

I use something very similar (a table describing what job to do + when to start). From the ages were I understood that I was unable to write an error free stored procedure.

--
Arnaud


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4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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