Upgrading 2004 to v15

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Upgrading 2004 to v15

J Douglas Hall
For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?

I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
please email me privately.


Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:

Foundation (v3.7.2?)

Components:
Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.

Plugins:
AreaList Pro 7.9
Active4D
MD5 Plugin
PDF Plugin
PostgreSQL Plugin
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

J Douglas Hall
Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.

Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got to
be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff? I
primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
take to recreate this functionality.

Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty straightforward?

Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?

Many thanks ahead of time!
Doug Hall

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>
> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
> please email me privately.
>
>
> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>
> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>
> Components:
> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>
> Plugins:
> AreaList Pro 7.9
> Active4D
> MD5 Plugin
> PDF Plugin
> PostgreSQL Plugin
>
>
**********************************************************************
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Chip Scheide
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
as for BASH:
list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code
out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)


On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:

> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>
> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
> please email me privately.
>
>
> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>
> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>
> Components:
> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>
> Plugins:
> AreaList Pro 7.9
> Active4D
> MD5 Plugin
> PDF Plugin
> PostgreSQL Plugin
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> **********************************************************************
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

J Douglas Hall
Thanks for the responses so far! I'm so glad I still have help here! (I'm
gonna need it.) How wonderful to hear from some of you old-timers -- all
the way back to the CompuServe days (Douglas von Roeder and Lee Hinde for
sure, and Chip Scheide might have been around in those days. My memory
fails me.) I can hear that blasted 9600 baud modem screeching, to this day!
:-))  <--- Yes, I've adopted a double chin, now. Gotta get rid of that
stupid thing. :-((

After a little plowing through 4D Insider, I've found a few plugins that I
wasn't even using, but never bothered to clean out. I've already
removed Expat4D, 4D Open and PrintList Pro. I had already removed the MD5
plugin I mentioned earlier, but I had forgotten I had. (I was working off
an old list of plugins.)

Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure that
I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help me
locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?

I am glad to hear that it's actually possible to go straight to v15. I'm
going to have lots of questions along the way. I hope you guys don't get
tired of me.

Guy Algot, I appreciate the offer of help, but we're pretty low budget in
this state office. Just upgrading the software is sending shock waves. I
appreciate the offer, though.


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Chip Scheide <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> as for BASH:
> list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code
> out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> > For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> > to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> > I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> > I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> > begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> > advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or
> is
> > it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> >
> > I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> > years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> so,
> > please email me privately.
> >
> >
> > Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> >
> > Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> >
> > Components:
> > Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> > Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> >
> > Plugins:
> > AreaList Pro 7.9
> > Active4D
> > MD5 Plugin
> > PDF Plugin
> > PostgreSQL Plugin
> > **********************************************************************
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> > **********************************************************************
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> **********************************************************************
>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Lee Hinde
No, but you can quickly search the database for specific objects. Command/Control-Shift-F


> On Aug 30, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
> upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure that
> I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help me
> locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?

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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Guy Algot
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
No problem Doug. If it changes let me know.

You probably want to visit the Foundation page and upgrade your component. There’s also a support list over there as well.

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:03 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the responses so far! I'm so glad I still have help here! (I'm
> gonna need it.) How wonderful to hear from some of you old-timers -- all
> the way back to the CompuServe days (Douglas von Roeder and Lee Hinde for
> sure, and Chip Scheide might have been around in those days. My memory
> fails me.) I can hear that blasted 9600 baud modem screeching, to this day!
> :-))  <--- Yes, I've adopted a double chin, now. Gotta get rid of that
> stupid thing. :-((
>
> After a little plowing through 4D Insider, I've found a few plugins that I
> wasn't even using, but never bothered to clean out. I've already
> removed Expat4D, 4D Open and PrintList Pro. I had already removed the MD5
> plugin I mentioned earlier, but I had forgotten I had. (I was working off
> an old list of plugins.)
>
> Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
> upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure that
> I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help me
> locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?
>
> I am glad to hear that it's actually possible to go straight to v15. I'm
> going to have lots of questions along the way. I hope you guys don't get
> tired of me.
>
> Guy Algot, I appreciate the offer of help, but we're pretty low budget in
> this state office. Just upgrading the software is sending shock waves. I
> appreciate the offer, though.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Chip Scheide <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> as for BASH:
>> list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code
>> out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
>>> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
>>> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
>>> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
>>> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
>>> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
>>> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or
>> is
>>> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>>>
>>> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
>>> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
>> so,
>>> please email me privately.
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>>>
>>> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>>>
>>> Components:
>>> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
>>> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>>>
>>> Plugins:
>>> AreaList Pro 7.9
>>> Active4D
>>> MD5 Plugin
>>> PDF Plugin
>>> PostgreSQL Plugin
>>>


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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

J Douglas Hall
Thanks, Guy. I'll definitely check it out.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 6:57 PM, Guy Algot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No problem Doug. If it changes let me know.
>
> You probably want to visit the Foundation page and upgrade your component.
> There’s also a support list over there as well.
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:03 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the responses so far! I'm so glad I still have help here! (I'm
> > gonna need it.) How wonderful to hear from some of you old-timers -- all
> > the way back to the CompuServe days (Douglas von Roeder and Lee Hinde for
> > sure, and Chip Scheide might have been around in those days. My memory
> > fails me.) I can hear that blasted 9600 baud modem screeching, to this
> day!
> > :-))  <--- Yes, I've adopted a double chin, now. Gotta get rid of that
> > stupid thing. :-((
> >
> > After a little plowing through 4D Insider, I've found a few plugins that
> I
> > wasn't even using, but never bothered to clean out. I've already
> > removed Expat4D, 4D Open and PrintList Pro. I had already removed the MD5
> > plugin I mentioned earlier, but I had forgotten I had. (I was working off
> > an old list of plugins.)
> >
> > Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
> > upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure
> that
> > I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help
> me
> > locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> > functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?
> >
> > I am glad to hear that it's actually possible to go straight to v15. I'm
> > going to have lots of questions along the way. I hope you guys don't get
> > tired of me.
> >
> > Guy Algot, I appreciate the offer of help, but we're pretty low budget in
> > this state office. Just upgrading the software is sending shock waves. I
> > appreciate the offer, though.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Chip Scheide <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> as for BASH:
> >> list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code
> >> out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> >>> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
> intended
> >>> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
> impossible.
> >>> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most
> part,
> >>> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So,
> now I
> >>> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> >>> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
> or
> >> is
> >>> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> >>>
> >>> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> >>> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> >> so,
> >>> please email me privately.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> >>>
> >>> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> >>>
> >>> Components:
> >>> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> >>> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> >>>
> >>> Plugins:
> >>> AreaList Pro 7.9
> >>> Active4D
> >>> MD5 Plugin
> >>> PDF Plugin
> >>> PostgreSQL Plugin
> >>>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
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>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Philippe Ganter
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
Doug,

As far as our plugins are concerned you’ll need to upgrade AreaList PrintList Pro and PrintList Pro to the current versions:

www.e-node.net/alp
www.e-node.net/plp

Best regards,
--
Phil
forums.e-node.net


> On 30 Aug 2016, at 23:17, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>
> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
> please email me privately.
>
>
> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>
> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>
> Components:
> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>
> Plugins:
> AreaList Pro 7.9
> Active4D
> MD5 Plugin
> PDF Plugin
> PostgreSQL Plugin
















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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Peter Mew-3
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
Hi Doug
I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with the 4D code.
Good luck
-pm

Sent from my iPad

> On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
>
> Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
> similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got to
> be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff? I
> primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
> NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
> take to recreate this functionality.
>
> Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
> and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
> and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
> see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
> any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty straightforward?
>
> Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
> for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
> data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
> non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
> Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
>
> Many thanks ahead of time!
> Doug Hall
>
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
>> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
>> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
>> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
>> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
>> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
>> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>>
>> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
>> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
>> please email me privately.
>>
>>
>> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>>
>> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>>
>> Components:
>> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
>> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>>
>> Plugins:
>> AreaList Pro 7.9
>> Active4D
>> MD5 Plugin
>> PDF Plugin
>> PostgreSQL Plugin
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Chip Scheide
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
Yes and no
4d has implemented a system of 'Find in Design' that, mostly, replaces
Insider.
It does some things that insider didn't, and there are a few things
that insider did that the new system does not.

Find in design does the insider cross referencing, live; BUT, it does
so only on the entered request.
so there is no Xref to look through, BUT you can ask : Where is this
variable/field/text/command/table/etc. used and get an answer in a
second or 2.

There are menu functions to allow finding unused local and global vars,
and methods.

Moving .. stuff.. is not just drag n drop between 2 open databases.
Need a form from system 1 in system 2?
open both, drag from 1 to 2.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:03:04 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> 4D Insider will help me
> locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Chip Scheide
proof reading...

Moving .. stuff.. is **NOW** just drag n drop between 2 open databases


also, after locating something with Find in Design, you can globally
change it.
if you use a variable my_text_var_t
and you find you want/need to retype (as in data type) to long int and
want to rename it to match you can use the replace in content function
to change it to: my_Longint_var_l
and all displayed occurrences are replaced

On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 10:28:35 -0400, Chip Scheide wrote:
>
>
> Moving .. stuff.. is not just drag n drop between 2 open databases.
> Need a form from system 1 in system 2?
> open both, drag from 1 to 2.
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

J Douglas Hall
In reply to this post by Peter Mew-3
When you guys say you've moved from 4D 2004 to v13 (or later) in one go,
you don't mean that the data file converts seamlessly jumping straight to
those later versions, do you? I'm working under the assumption that the
data file must be opened and manipulated with contiguous versions, but that
the CODE can jump (with a lot of rework) from 2004 to v15. Is this right?

Thanks!

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Peter Mew <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Doug
> I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
> I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the
> routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
> I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with
> the 4D code.
> Good luck
> -pm
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
> >
> > Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
> > similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got
> to
> > be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff?
> I
> > primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
> > NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
> > take to recreate this functionality.
> >
> > Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
> > and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
> > and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
> > see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
> > any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty
> straightforward?
> >
> > Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
> > for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
> > data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
> > non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
> > Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
> >
> > Many thanks ahead of time!
> > Doug Hall
> >
> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
> intended
> >> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
> impossible.
> >> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> >> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now
> I
> >> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> >> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
> or is
> >> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> >>
> >> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> >> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> so,
> >> please email me privately.
> >>
> >>
> >> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> >>
> >> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> >>
> >> Components:
> >> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> >> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> >>
> >> Plugins:
> >> AreaList Pro 7.9
> >> Active4D
> >> MD5 Plugin
> >> PDF Plugin
> >> PostgreSQL Plugin
> > **********************************************************************
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> > **********************************************************************
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Wayne Stewart
Doug,

It should just convert. I recently went from 6.7 to v15 in one step. No
problem at all

Wayne

On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:

> When you guys say you've moved from 4D 2004 to v13 (or later) in one go,
> you don't mean that the data file converts seamlessly jumping straight to
> those later versions, do you? I'm working under the assumption that the
> data file must be opened and manipulated with contiguous versions, but that
> the CODE can jump (with a lot of rework) from 2004 to v15. Is this right?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Peter Mew <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Hi Doug
> > I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
> > I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the
> > routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
> > I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with
> > the 4D code.
> > Good luck
> > -pm
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from
> a
> > > similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got
> > to
> > > be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same
> stuff?
> > I
> > > primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably
> used
> > > NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it
> will
> > > take to recreate this functionality.
> > >
> > > Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading.
> Active4D
> > > and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF
> Plugin
> > > and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro
> I
> > > see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are
> there
> > > any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty
> > straightforward?
> > >
> > > Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to
> shoot
> > > for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will
> the
> > > data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
> > > non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components,
> like
> > > Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
> > >
> > > Many thanks ahead of time!
> > > Doug Hall
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
> > intended
> > >> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
> > impossible.
> > >> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most
> part,
> > >> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So,
> now
> > I
> > >> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> > >> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
> > or is
> > >> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> > >>
> > >> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> > >> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> > so,
> > >> please email me privately.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> > >>
> > >> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> > >>
> > >> Components:
> > >> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> > >> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> > >>
> > >> Plugins:
> > >> AreaList Pro 7.9
> > >> Active4D
> > >> MD5 Plugin
> > >> PDF Plugin
> > >> PostgreSQL Plugin
> > > **********************************************************************
> > > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > > Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > **********************************************************************
> > **********************************************************************
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > **********************************************************************
> >
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> **********************************************************************



--

Regards,

Wayne


[image: --]
Wayne Stewart
[image: http://]about.me/waynestewart
<http://about.me/waynestewart>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

J Douglas Hall
WOW! Okay, that's great. I imagine I *still* need to read the upgrade
manuals for v11 through v14 too, though, right? There may be issues that
still apply to me that are not repeated in more recent upgrade manuals.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Wayne Stewart <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Doug,
>
> It should just convert. I recently went from 6.7 to v15 in one step. No
> problem at all
>
> Wayne
>
>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Chip Scheide
probably a good idea  :)
RTFM   8D

however, there is one major issue:
Primary Keys.

Beginning in v14(?) [i'm still on 13]
if you want backups, you will need to have primary key on every table.

if you look at the archives you can find - lots of long discussions on
this topic.
read one or more of them too

On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 09:52:21 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:

> WOW! Okay, that's great. I imagine I *still* need to read the upgrade
> manuals for v11 through v14 too, though, right? There may be issues that
> still apply to me that are not repeated in more recent upgrade manuals.
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Wayne Stewart <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Doug,
>>
>> It should just convert. I recently went from 6.7 to v15 in one step. No
>> problem at all
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Peter Mew-3
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
Hi Doug
I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development environment and it converted both structure and database to v13 format. Then I had to work my way through it to find what still worked, and fix what didn't.
-pm

Sent from my iPad

> On 31 Aug 2016, at 15:45, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> When you guys say you've moved from 4D 2004 to v13 (or later) in one go,
> you don't mean that the data file converts seamlessly jumping straight to
> those later versions, do you? I'm working under the assumption that the
> data file must be opened and manipulated with contiguous versions, but that
> the CODE can jump (with a lot of rework) from 2004 to v15. Is this right?
>
> Thanks!
>
>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Peter Mew <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Doug
>> I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
>> I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the
>> routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
>> I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with
>> the 4D code.
>> Good luck
>> -pm
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
>>> similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got
>> to
>>> be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff?
>> I
>>> primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
>>> NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
>>> take to recreate this functionality.
>>>
>>> Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
>>> and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
>>> and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
>>> see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
>>> any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty
>> straightforward?
>>>
>>> Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
>>> for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
>>> data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
>>> non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
>>> Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
>>>
>>> Many thanks ahead of time!
>>> Doug Hall
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
>> intended
>>>> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
>> impossible.
>>>> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
>>>> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now
>> I
>>>> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
>>>> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
>> or is
>>>> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>>>>
>>>> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
>>>> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
>> so,
>>>> please email me privately.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>>>>
>>>> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>>>>
>>>> Components:
>>>> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
>>>> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>>>>
>>>> Plugins:
>>>> AreaList Pro 7.9
>>>> Active4D
>>>> MD5 Plugin
>>>> PDF Plugin
>>>> PostgreSQL Plugin
>>> **********************************************************************
>>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
>>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>>> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>>> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>> **********************************************************************
>> **********************************************************************
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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RE: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Timothy Penner
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
Hi Doug,

> I imagine I *still* need to read the upgrade manuals for v11 through v14 too, though, right?
> There may be issues that still apply to me that are not repeated in more recent upgrade manuals.

Yes, you should review the upgrade manuals and deprecated features manual for each version you are skipping because the changes will still apply to you and the documentation would be in the version that the change occurred in.

-Tim PENNER
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Tim Nevels-2
In reply to this post by J Douglas Hall
On Aug 31, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Peter Mew wrote:

> I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development environment and it converted both structure and database to v13 format. Then I had to work my way through it to find what still worked, and fix what didn't.

I would agree with Peter’s advice. You’ve already said you are going to upgrade to v15. So just grab a copy of the current structure and a copy of the current data file and open it in v15 and let it convert it.

You’ll get a bunch of errors about the plugins and messages about not having primary keys set for all the tables. And of course it will not compile. Then you get to work like Peter says.

Upgrade the plugins. Then run a compile. Go to each error, like all the plugin related ones, and fix them by writing new code or replacing a plugin with a method you create. It’s going to take you a few days and maybe 50 attempts to compile before it works. But you’ll get there.

You may have to write some code to update your data file because v15 requires a primary key be set for every table you want to journal. So you may have to do several test data file upgrades before it works smoothly. You may also have to make one more 2004 version that has all the primary key fields created and values assigned to them. Then when you open that data file with v15 it will convert it and assign the primary keys without issues.

We all had to go through the primary key issues when moving from v13 to v14 or v15.

Once all that is done, you’ll be ready to install the v15 version and let it upgrade your production data file.  The final step will be dealing with those odd bugs and issues that users report about certain things that you didn’t run across while doing the upgrade work. Can’t get around that part either. It’s going to happen, but they usually very quick and easy to fix. Probably on need one or two v15 version bug fix structure installs and you will be back to where you are now running your 2004 version.

And as they say… good luck. :)

Tim

********************************************
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
[hidden email]
********************************************

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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

Wayne Stewart
And guard your catalog.xml file with your life.

:)

On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Tim Nevels <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Aug 31, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Peter Mew wrote:
>
> > I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development
> environment and it converted both structure and database to v13 format.
> Then I had to work my way through it to find what still worked, and fix
> what didn't.
>
> I would agree with Peter’s advice. You’ve already said you are going to
> upgrade to v15. So just grab a copy of the current structure and a copy of
> the current data file and open it in v15 and let it convert it.
>
> You’ll get a bunch of errors about the plugins and messages about not
> having primary keys set for all the tables. And of course it will not
> compile. Then you get to work like Peter says.
>
> Upgrade the plugins. Then run a compile. Go to each error, like all the
> plugin related ones, and fix them by writing new code or replacing a plugin
> with a method you create. It’s going to take you a few days and maybe 50
> attempts to compile before it works. But you’ll get there.
>
> You may have to write some code to update your data file because v15
> requires a primary key be set for every table you want to journal. So you
> may have to do several test data file upgrades before it works smoothly.
> You may also have to make one more 2004 version that has all the primary
> key fields created and values assigned to them. Then when you open that
> data file with v15 it will convert it and assign the primary keys without
> issues.
>
> We all had to go through the primary key issues when moving from v13 to
> v14 or v15.
>
> Once all that is done, you’ll be ready to install the v15 version and let
> it upgrade your production data file.  The final step will be dealing with
> those odd bugs and issues that users report about certain things that you
> didn’t run across while doing the upgrade work. Can’t get around that part
> either. It’s going to happen, but they usually very quick and easy to fix.
> Probably on need one or two v15 version bug fix structure installs and you
> will be back to where you are now running your 2004 version.
>
> And as they say… good luck. :)
>
> Tim
>
> ********************************************
> Tim Nevels
> Innovative Solutions
> 785-749-3444
> [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ********************************************
>
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> **********************************************************************



--

Regards,

Wayne


[image: --]
Wayne Stewart
[image: http://]about.me/waynestewart
<http://about.me/waynestewart>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

J Douglas Hall
I sure appreciate all the helpful posts. Sorry I don't have the time to
reply individually, but rest assured I'm paying attention to all the
comments. Something tells me I need something like Evernote to help
organize all the notes I'm going to be taking. :-)

Doug

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Wayne Stewart <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> And guard your catalog.xml file with your life.
>
> :)
>
> On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Tim Nevels <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 31, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Peter Mew wrote:
> >
> > > I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development
> > environment and it converted both structure and database to v13 format.
> > Then I had to work my way through it to find what still worked, and fix
> > what didn't.
> >
> > I would agree with Peter’s advice. You’ve already said you are going to
> > upgrade to v15. So just grab a copy of the current structure and a copy
> of
> > the current data file and open it in v15 and let it convert it.
> >
> > You’ll get a bunch of errors about the plugins and messages about not
> > having primary keys set for all the tables. And of course it will not
> > compile. Then you get to work like Peter says.
> >
> > Upgrade the plugins. Then run a compile. Go to each error, like all the
> > plugin related ones, and fix them by writing new code or replacing a
> plugin
> > with a method you create. It’s going to take you a few days and maybe 50
> > attempts to compile before it works. But you’ll get there.
> >
> > You may have to write some code to update your data file because v15
> > requires a primary key be set for every table you want to journal. So you
> > may have to do several test data file upgrades before it works smoothly.
> > You may also have to make one more 2004 version that has all the primary
> > key fields created and values assigned to them. Then when you open that
> > data file with v15 it will convert it and assign the primary keys without
> > issues.
> >
> > We all had to go through the primary key issues when moving from v13 to
> > v14 or v15.
> >
> > Once all that is done, you’ll be ready to install the v15 version and let
> > it upgrade your production data file.  The final step will be dealing
> with
> > those odd bugs and issues that users report about certain things that you
> > didn’t run across while doing the upgrade work. Can’t get around that
> part
> > either. It’s going to happen, but they usually very quick and easy to
> fix.
> > Probably on need one or two v15 version bug fix structure installs and
> you
> > will be back to where you are now running your 2004 version.
> >
> > And as they say… good luck. :)
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > ********************************************
> > Tim Nevels
> > Innovative Solutions
> > 785-749-3444
> > [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ********************************************
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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> --
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> Regards,
>
> Wayne
>
>
> [image: --]
> Wayne Stewart
> [image: http://]about.me/waynestewart
> <http://about.me/waynestewart>
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> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
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