V13 Client Update Process

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V13 Client Update Process

Stephen J. Orth
We are having a major argument with a Customer about the time it's taking to
update a V13 Client, and I'm looking for some guidance.

 

When we build our OEM, we flag the build process so the "Upgrade4DClient"
directory is built.  The problem we are having is that the Customer is
saying it took 28 minutes for a single Client to perform the Client
Upgrading process.

 

I need to understand what exactly is happening when the Client connects, and
how the "archive.win" is pushed/pulled down to the Client.

 

Our Customer is wanting to perform a simple file copy from the Server down
to the Client.   I know that if this take anything shorter than the times
they are seeing, they are going to want to know EXACTLY what we are doing
during the Client Upgrade process.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

 

Best,

 

 

Steve

 

*********************************************

  Stephen J. Orth                                                

  The Aquila Group, Inc.         Office:  (608) 834-9213

  P.O. Box 690                           Mobile:  (608) 347-6447

  Sun Prairie, WI 53590

 

  E-Mail:   <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]

*********************************************

 


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Re: V13 Client Update Process

Jeffrey Kain
What’s the OS? If it’s XP, it’s really really slow. It always has been. As soon as you advance beyond XP, the client update times are really fast and much more reliable.

The same goes for building applications, by the way. If your build machine is XP, it’s going to take several times longer to build than on Win 7 or 8.

Jeff

On Feb 3, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Stephen J. Orth <[hidden email]> wrote:

> When we build our OEM, we flag the build process so the "Upgrade4DClient"
> directory is built.  The problem we are having is that the Customer is
> saying it took 28 minutes for a single Client to perform the Client
> Upgrading process.


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RE: V13 Client Update Process

Stephen J. Orth
Jeff,

Sorry for the over site....

The Server is 2008 R2, and the Clients are W7.  The issues here is that the
last time we rolled out a Client Upgrade such as this it was very fast.
Normally completely in less than 3 minutes.

This time it took very long, and I'm positive it's not related to 4D,
however if they copy down the upgrade file and does so in a matter of
seconds, they are going to want to know what we are doing in the 4D
upgrading process.


Steve

*********************************************
  Stephen J. Orth                                                
  The Aquila Group, Inc.         Office:  (608) 834-9213
  P.O. Box 690                           Mobile:  (608) 347-6447
  Sun Prairie, WI 53590

  E-Mail:  [hidden email]
*********************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Kain
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 9:38 AM
To: 4D iNug Technical
Subject: Re: V13 Client Update Process
Importance: High

What's the OS? If it's XP, it's really really slow. It always has been. As
soon as you advance beyond XP, the client update times are really fast and
much more reliable.

The same goes for building applications, by the way. If your build machine
is XP, it's going to take several times longer to build than on Win 7 or 8.

Jeff




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Re: V13 Client Update Process

Spencer Hinsdale-2

this tech note details the process:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76641

On Feb 3, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Stephen J. Orth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This time it took very long, and I'm positive it's not related to 4D,
> however if they copy down the upgrade file and does so in a matter of
> seconds, they are going to want to know what we are doing in the 4D
> upgrading process.
>


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4D v13 is available now - with more than 200 new features to make
your applications richer and faster
http://www.4d.com/products/new.html

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RE: V13 Client Update Process

Stephen J. Orth
In reply to this post by Stephen J. Orth
Spencer,

Thanks....

This is just frustrating, because now they are also stating the cache
replication process was involved in this long copy time also.


Steve



-----Original Message-----
From: Spencer Hinsdale [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 10:12 AM
To: [hidden email]; 4D iNug Technical
Subject: Re: V13 Client Update Process


this tech note details the process:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76641



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http://www.4d.com/products/new.html

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Re: V13 Client Update Process

Spencer Hinsdale-2

Steve,

If they timed the FIRST Client, then the long-time includes Server doing its .archive operation for "new" Plugins, Resources, and Extras, which could be glacial in a virtualized environment, I suppose.

Also, if they noted the start/stop time, you might have them look to see if there is a .4BK created at the same time.  Or, do they recall needing to create a Log File, which kicks off Backup?  Backup takes longer for larger data files :) and keeps Client waiting ("the server is performing a maintenance operation").

Then, if you want to be a rock star, click over to Thomas' reply in Words of Wisdom thread and ask, What's in the hash?.  On the Mac it's a mod date of a folder which can be manipulated with a shell script, thereby avoiding re-.archiving, re-downloading, etc. of Plugins that don't change (same thread mentions 4DIC is 6MB).  I haven't bothered to figure out the same for Windows, yet...

-spencer


On Feb 3, 2014, at 8:22 AM, Stephen J. Orth <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Spencer,
>
> Thanks....
>
> This is just frustrating, because now they are also stating the cache
> replication process was involved in this long copy time also.
>


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4D v13 is available now - with more than 200 new features to make
your applications richer and faster
http://www.4d.com/products/new.html

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Re: V13 Client Update Process

Chuck Miller-2
In reply to this post by Stephen J. Orth
Are they testing one upgrade
If many machines are trying at the same time it could be slow
Also is there any any server in it going on

Regards
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 3, 2014, at 10:27 AM, "Stephen J. Orth" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We are having a major argument with a Customer about the time it's taking to
> update a V13 Client, and I'm looking for some guidance.
>
>
>
> When we build our OEM, we flag the build process so the "Upgrade4DClient"
> directory is built.  The problem we are having is that the Customer is
> saying it took 28 minutes for a single Client to perform the Client
> Upgrading process.
>
>
>
> I need to understand what exactly is happening when the Client connects, and
> how the "archive.win" is pushed/pulled down to the Client.
>
>
>
> Our Customer is wanting to perform a simple file copy from the Server down
> to the Client.   I know that if this take anything shorter than the times
> they are seeing, they are going to want to know EXACTLY what we are doing
> during the Client Upgrade process.
>
>
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> *********************************************
>
>  Stephen J. Orth                                                
>
>  The Aquila Group, Inc.         Office:  (608) 834-9213
>
>  P.O. Box 690                           Mobile:  (608) 347-6447
>
>  Sun Prairie, WI 53590
>
>
>
>  E-Mail:   <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]
>
> *********************************************
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> 4D v13 is available now - with more than 200 new features to make
> your applications richer and faster
> http://www.4d.com/products/new.html
>
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> **********************************************************************

**********************************************************************
4D v13 is available now - with more than 200 new features to make
your applications richer and faster
http://www.4d.com/products/new.html

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RE: V13 Client Update Process

Stephen J. Orth
Chuck,

Yes, it's possible many Clients are trying to run this upgrade at the same
time, but it's only a 74 meg file that takes seconds to copy down, before
the BAT file runs locally.

Same with the Client local cache upgrading, again just pushing files across
the network, which is very fast.

I don't see how this all explains a process that normally takes 2-4 minutes,
should take 28 minutes.


Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Miller [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:39 AM
To: [hidden email]; 4D iNug Technical
Subject: Re: V13 Client Update Process

Are they testing one upgrade
If many machines are trying at the same time it could be slow Also is there
any any server in it going on

Regards
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone


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4D v13 is available now - with more than 200 new features to make
your applications richer and faster
http://www.4d.com/products/new.html

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RE: V13 Client Update Process

Stephen J. Orth
In reply to this post by Stephen J. Orth
Spencer,

Do you know of an article that explains the mechanism's behind the Client
local cache updating process?

I'm trying to understand specifically what is happening during this, and how
much load is on the server vs. the client.

Specifically, why a large number of uses would impact this process, since it
really should just be a file copy, and the network is very fast.


Steve

*********************************************
  Stephen J. Orth                                                
  The Aquila Group, Inc.         Office:  (608) 834-9213
  P.O. Box 690                           Mobile:  (608) 347-6447
  Sun Prairie, WI 53590

  E-Mail:  [hidden email]
*********************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: Spencer Hinsdale [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 10:12 AM
To: [hidden email]; 4D iNug Technical
Subject: Re: V13 Client Update Process


this tech note details the process:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76641
 
On Feb 3, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Stephen J. Orth <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
> This time it took very long, and I'm positive it's not related to 4D,
> however if they copy down the upgrade file and does so in a matter of
> seconds, they are going to want to know what we are doing in the 4D
> upgrading process.
>





**********************************************************************
4D v13 is available now - with more than 200 new features to make
your applications richer and faster
http://www.4d.com/products/new.html

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Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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Re: V13 Client Update Process

Bill Weale
Hi Steve--

Do you have any confidence that all "outside" influences have been considered and eliminated? You don't seem to indicate whether this was a one-time issue or a one-client issue. Is the server responding to already-updated clients? Isn't 28 minutes way too long to even consider it could be 4D-centric? Unless the data file is being downloaded too?

Virus scanning
unrelated heavy network load
network backup
OS updates
Working from a mirror without someone being aware (not the server they think it is)
net connection or switch
etc, etc.

Bill



On Feb 3, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Stephen J. Orth wrote:

> Spencer,
>
> Do you know of an article that explains the mechanism's behind the Client
> local cache updating process?
>
> I'm trying to understand specifically what is happening during this, and how
> much load is on the server vs. the client.
>
> Specifically, why a large number of uses would impact this process, since it
> really should just be a file copy, and the network is very fast.
>
>


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http://www.4d.com/products/new.html

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