Windows Server transition - Best Practice Advice

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Windows Server transition - Best Practice Advice

4D Tech mailing list
Hello List,


We are beginning to transition our servers from Mac to Windows. For those
of you who have made the journey, what have you found to be best practices
for a built c/s app running on Windows Server 2016 Standard? Are there any
gotcha's we should watch out for? Direct roads to smooth sailing?


Our initial tests will be on a Virtual Machine. We can transition to bare
metal if the VM's do not meet our performance expectations. Thoughts?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------

Edgar Hammond                                    
[hidden email]

Quest Information Systems

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
**********************************************************************
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
**********************************************************************
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows Server transition - Best Practice Advice

4D Tech mailing list
Hi Ed,

>We are beginning to transition our servers from Mac to Windows. For those
>of you who have made the journey, what have you found to be best practices
>for a built c/s app running on Windows Server 2016 Standard? Are there any
>gotcha's we should watch out for? Direct roads to smooth sailing?

Running 4D Server under Windows Server is pretty straightforward. I don’t know about specific WS 2016 issues, but in general there are only a few things to set for 4D Server to run best.

One thing to make sure is to set it to be optimized as a data server, not a file server. In WS 2008 that setting was in the “Performance Options” control Panel, but may be elsewhere in v2016.

>Our initial tests will be on a Virtual Machine. We can transition to bare
>metal if the VM's do not meet our performance expectations. Thoughts?

In my experience, a VM will perform best with 4D when dedicated resources (disk space and RAM) are allocated for 4D. The ‘smart’ features of VMs which manage application memory and disk priority should be disabled for 4D.

Other things to consider:

- 4D Server on Windows has been 64 bit for a very long time, so that may be something new for you. You’ll be able to set the 4D Cache much higher. Check out the 4D Tech Notes for details, but basically you can set the 4D Cache to 50% of RAM.

- Under v17 you can use Volume Shadow Service to have Windows make an automatic snapshot backup. That’s a good thing, but if you aren’t using v17 you’ll need to make sure you disable the VSS service on Windows Server. It has the potential to cause problems with the 4D database.

- You may also need to increase the size of the process stack for new processes you create in 4D. It should be at least 128,000 bytes.

Others with more recent experience than mine will hopefully add to or correct this list.

HTH,

Tom Benedict



**********************************************************************
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
**********************************************************************
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows Server transition - Best Practice Advice

4D Tech mailing list
One point - in Windows Server 2016, Windows Defender is turned on by default (antivirus/anti-malware). You'll definitely want to either write exclusions for all 4D-related directories and file types, or disable it altogether (you can do a Google search for how to completely disable it if your server is well firewalled... required command line access to do this).

> On May 6, 2019, at 1:45 PM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Ed,
>
>> We are beginning to transition our servers from Mac to Windows. For those
>> of you who have made the journey, what have you found to be best practices
>> for a built c/s app running on Windows Server 2016 Standard? Are there any
>> gotcha's we should watch out for? Direct roads to smooth sailing?
>
> Running 4D Server under Windows Server is pretty straightforward. I don’t know about specific WS 2016 issues, but in general there are only a few things to set for 4D Server to run best.
>
> One thing to make sure is to set it to be optimized as a data server, not a file server. In WS 2008 that setting was in the “Performance Options” control Panel, but may be elsewhere in v2016.

This setting is no longer around... it's smart enough to figure out what you're doing and not run into dueling cache issues.


Jeff
**********************************************************************
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
**********************************************************************
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows Server transition - Best Practice Advice

4D Tech mailing list
Jeff and Tom,

Thanks for the pointing us in the correct direction. We are now all 64 bit, so that hurdle has been crossed. I’ll talk to our IT staff about defender issues. Any tips on where the application should be located? Pluses and minuses for running as a service?

> On May 6, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Jeffrey Kain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> One point - in Windows Server 2016, Windows Defender is turned on by default (antivirus/anti-malware). You'll definitely want to either write exclusions for all 4D-related directories and file types, or disable it altogether (you can do a Google search for how to completely disable it if your server is well firewalled... required command line access to do this).
>
>> On May 6, 2019, at 1:45 PM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ed,
>>
>>> We are beginning to transition our servers from Mac to Windows. For those
>>> of you who have made the journey, what have you found to be best practices
>>> for a built c/s app running on Windows Server 2016 Standard? Are there any
>>> gotcha's we should watch out for? Direct roads to smooth sailing?
>>
>> Running 4D Server under Windows Server is pretty straightforward. I don’t know about specific WS 2016 issues, but in general there are only a few things to set for 4D Server to run best.
>>
>> One thing to make sure is to set it to be optimized as a data server, not a file server. In WS 2008 that setting was in the “Performance Options” control Panel, but may be elsewhere in v2016.
>
> This setting is no longer around... it's smart enough to figure out what you're doing and not run into dueling cache issues.
>
>
> Jeff

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edgar Hammond                            [hidden email]
Quest Information Systems                                 847 234-1345
http://www.questinformation.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------



**********************************************************************
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
**********************************************************************
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows Server transition - Best Practice Advice

4D Tech mailing list
Hi Ed,

We had 4D Server and all 4D files including .4DD and .journal files on the same disk but separate from the . I know that it’s usually recommended to keep the .journal on a different disk or even a different file server, but since we were on a SAN, disk reliability was much higher than network reliability. The chance of a network disconnect causing the link to the .journal to break was avoided by having it on the same disk. We also mirrored, via log shipping, every 15 minutes, so that provided sufficient redundancy. Under WS2008 there were no restrictions on where an app needed to reside, but there may be in WS2016, so I’ll let Jeff chime in on that.

HTH,

Tom

> On May 6, 2019, at 21:08, Ed Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Jeff and Tom,
>
> Thanks for the pointing us in the correct direction. We are now all 64 bit, so that hurdle has been crossed. I’ll talk to our IT staff about defender issues. Any tips on where the application should be located? Pluses and minuses for running as a service?
>
>> On May 6, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Jeffrey Kain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> One point - in Windows Server 2016, Windows Defender is turned on by default (antivirus/anti-malware). You'll definitely want to either write exclusions for all 4D-related directories and file types, or disable it altogether (you can do a Google search for how to completely disable it if your server is well firewalled... required command line access to do this).
>>
>>> On May 6, 2019, at 1:45 PM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Ed,
>>>
>>>> We are beginning to transition our servers from Mac to Windows. For those
>>>> of you who have made the journey, what have you found to be best practices
>>>> for a built c/s app running on Windows Server 2016 Standard? Are there any
>>>> gotcha's we should watch out for? Direct roads to smooth sailing?
>>>
>>> Running 4D Server under Windows Server is pretty straightforward. I don’t know about specific WS 2016 issues, but in general there are only a few things to set for 4D Server to run best.
>>>
>>> One thing to make sure is to set it to be optimized as a data server, not a file server. In WS 2008 that setting was in the “Performance Options” control Panel, but may be elsewhere in v2016.
>>
>> This setting is no longer around... it's smart enough to figure out what you're doing and not run into dueling cache issues.
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Edgar Hammond                            [hidden email]
> Quest Information Systems                                 847 234-1345
> http://www.questinformation.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

**********************************************************************
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
**********************************************************************
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows Server transition - Best Practice Advice

4D Tech mailing list
I keep 4D Server in Program Files and the structure and data etc on a different storage system.  

If this was an OEM or merged app I would keep everything on the separate storage.  

> On May 7, 2019, at 12:45 AM, Tom Benedict <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> We had 4D Server and all 4D files including .4DD and .journal files on the same disk but separate from the . I know that it’s usually recommended to keep the .journal on a different disk or even a different file server, but since we were on a SAN, disk reliability was much higher than network reliability. The chance of a network disconnect causing the link to the .journal to break was avoided by having it on the same disk. We also mirrored, via log shipping, every 15 minutes, so that provided sufficient redundancy. Under WS2008 there were no restrictions on where an app needed to reside, but there may be in WS2016, so I’ll let Jeff chime in on that.
>
> HTH,
>
> Tom
>
>> On May 6, 2019, at 21:08, Ed Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Jeff and Tom,
>>
>> Thanks for the pointing us in the correct direction. We are now all 64 bit, so that hurdle has been crossed. I’ll talk to our IT staff about defender issues. Any tips on where the application should be located? Pluses and minuses for running as a service?
>>
>>> On May 6, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Jeffrey Kain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> One point - in Windows Server 2016, Windows Defender is turned on by default (antivirus/anti-malware). You'll definitely want to either write exclusions for all 4D-related directories and file types, or disable it altogether (you can do a Google search for how to completely disable it if your server is well firewalled... required command line access to do this).
>>>
>>>> On May 6, 2019, at 1:45 PM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ed,
>>>>
>>>>> We are beginning to transition our servers from Mac to Windows. For those
>>>>> of you who have made the journey, what have you found to be best practices
>>>>> for a built c/s app running on Windows Server 2016 Standard? Are there any
>>>>> gotcha's we should watch out for? Direct roads to smooth sailing?
>>>>
>>>> Running 4D Server under Windows Server is pretty straightforward. I don’t know about specific WS 2016 issues, but in general there are only a few things to set for 4D Server to run best.
>>>>
>>>> One thing to make sure is to set it to be optimized as a data server, not a file server. In WS 2008 that setting was in the “Performance Options” control Panel, but may be elsewhere in v2016.
>>>
>>> This setting is no longer around... it's smart enough to figure out what you're doing and not run into dueling cache issues.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Edgar Hammond                            [hidden email]
>> Quest Information Systems                                 847 234-1345
>> http://www.questinformation.com
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
**********************************************************************
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
**********************************************************************