v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

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RE: .zip from within 4D/PHP Execute

Stephen J. Orth
Randy,

Yes, we also moved to Miyako's plugin based upon your suggestion.  Very nice
product, and works well.

I don't believe I had both environments open on my system.  When I tested
this on the XP and Vista system, I was pretty sure that the Client was the
only thing running.

Boom! Hang!   Not really what I want....    ;-)


Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Engle [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 2:45 PM
To: [hidden email]; '4D iNug Technical'
Subject: RE: .zip from within 4D/PHP Execute

Steve,

Do you possibly have a another instance of your app open on that machine?
(e.g. local, 2nd Client, Server, etc)

Calling PHP Execute from two separate "application instances" will cause
exactly this behavior.
(Such is why we now use Miyako's plugin for hash functions)

e.g.  You've got your development app open (having called PHP Execute), and
then try to run client and call PHP Execute.
Boom!  Hang!

Randy Engle


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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Keith Goebel
In reply to this post by Keith Goebel
Jeff and Justin, thanks for your replies.
When we get the hardware, I'm sure we'll try it.
Cheers, Keith
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Re: .zip from within 4D

Julio Carneiro
In reply to this post by Witton, David
On Windows I use 7zip. I put all the files into a temporary directory and use LEP to fire off 7z.exe to compress the temp directory into the zip file I want.
Works great, fast and reliable.

hth
julio

On Sep 5, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Witton, David wrote:

> I'm creating .zip files from within 4D by first writing out a batch file to disk, then running it using AP ShellExecute and the WinZip command line tool - kinda kludgy...
>
> I haven't been paying much attention lately, so this qualifies as a newby question, but is there a plugin that would allow me to create a .zip file from within 4D more simply?
>
> David Witton
> Director, Information Systems
> St. John's Medical Center
> 307.739.7383

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Re: .zip from within 4D

Peter Bozek-2
In reply to this post by Witton, David
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Witton, David <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I haven't been paying much attention lately, so this qualifies as a newby question, but is there a plugin that would allow me to create a .zip file from within 4D more simply?
>

We publish Zip4D plugin that allows you to do that. Demo can be downloaded from
http://www.inforce.sk/download.html#Zip4D

Zip4D offers
 - close integration with 4D
 - control over cross-platform issues
 - ability to create archives in / unarchive data from memory
 - .gz format for compressing single file

Current version Zip4D 1.5.3 is fully compatible with 4D v12.

--

Peter Bozek
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RE: .zip from within 4D

Bruno LEGAY
In reply to this post by Witton, David
Hi,

Since you seem to get stuck with PHP zip functions, I have a component (v1& but can be ported to v12) which does zip.
It has 7zip packaged inside (Mac en Windows binaries).
It works fine on a server (I use it every night to zip backup files before ftp'ing them)...

Let me know if you are interested blegay [at] ac-consulting.fr.

HTH
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RE: .zip from within 4D

Mahmut Adnan Zerdeci
In reply to this post by Peter Bozek-2
Hi,

Zip4D works flawless with v11 and 12. But there is no 64 bit version of
Zip4D. We use extensively on server. So we need 64 bit version of it.

Regards

M. Adnan Zerdeci
Limit Computer and Consultancy
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Peter Bozek
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:26 AM
To: 4D iNug Technical
Subject: Re: .zip from within 4D

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Witton, David <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> I haven't been paying much attention lately, so this qualifies as a newby
question, but is there a plugin that would allow me to create a .zip file
from within 4D more simply?
>

We publish Zip4D plugin that allows you to do that. Demo can be downloaded
from http://www.inforce.sk/download.html#Zip4D

Zip4D offers
 - close integration with 4D
 - control over cross-platform issues
 - ability to create archives in / unarchive data from memory
 - .gz format for compressing single file

Current version Zip4D 1.5.3 is fully compatible with 4D v12.

--

Peter Bozek
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Re: .zip from within 4D

swelshh2
In reply to this post by Witton, David
> Everything works fine in Development mode, but as soon as we create our OEM
> and run it via Client, the PHP execute line simply locks up the system.


There is a known bug where the PHP Interpreter takes a little while to start the first time PHP Execute is called which can cause an error.  Could be causing your problem...

See this post on the 4D forum for a workaround:
http://forums.4d.fr/Post/EN/6086023/1/6089103#6089103

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RE: .zip from within 4D

Stephen J. Orth
Welsh,

Thanks for the link, I do recall reading this, but completely forgot about
it.

I'll give it a try, but in my situation, it seems like the PHP Execute call
is "freezing".  This thread makes it seem like the call does nothing and the
code continues to execute.


Steve



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Welsh Harris
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 7:29 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: .zip from within 4D

> Everything works fine in Development mode, but as soon as we create
> our OEM and run it via Client, the PHP execute line simply locks up the
system.


There is a known bug where the PHP Interpreter takes a little while to start
the first time PHP Execute is called which can cause an error.  Could be
causing your problem...

See this post on the 4D forum for a workaround:
http://forums.4d.fr/Post/EN/6086023/1/6089103#6089103

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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Ben Kershaw-3
In reply to this post by Keith Goebel
Does anyone know if there will be a 64 bit server for Mac?

Regards,
Ben Kershaw

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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Lyn-3
Wouldn't that be nice? I'm disappointed that 4D has not made this a higher priority.

Lyn

On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Ben Kershaw wrote:

> Does anyone know if there will be a 64 bit server for Mac?
>
> Regards,
> Ben Kershaw

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RE: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Joshua Fletcher
In reply to this post by Ben Kershaw-3
Hi Ben,

I don't think the question is "if" but rather "when".  From what I remember at the Summit:

There will be no 64-bit 4D Server for Mac in its current form because Apple decided not to support for the APIs we need under 64-bit (after previously committing to do so).  So, essentially, major portions of 4D Server need to be re-written in order to have 64-bit support on Mac, hence the delay vs. the Windows version.  If you're going to the Summit this year I'm sure you'll be able to hear more about it:

http://www.4d.com/company/events/summit2011.html

Kind regards,

Josh Fletcher

>



-----Original Message-----

> From: [hidden email] [mailto:4d_tech-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ben Kershaw
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 7:19 AM
> To: Technical, 4D
> Subject: Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?
>
> Does anyone know if there will be a 64 bit server for Mac?
>
> Regards,
> Ben Kershaw

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RE: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Justin Leavens
Joshua Fletcher wrote
I don't think the question is "if" but rather "when".
Ahhh, well, that actually is good news to me. I don't think I'm the only one who had the impression there was not going to be a 64-bit Mac Server version ever.

Looking forward to hearing more at Summit.
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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Jeffrey Kain (Old)
How big is the Mac server market anyway (for large 64-bit servers), especially since xServe has been discontinued and Mac Pros are only occasionally refreshed?

On Sep 6, 2011, at 6:50 PM, "Justin Leavens" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Joshua Fletcher wrote:
>>
>> I don't think the question is "if" but rather "when".
>>
> Ahhh, well, that actually is good news to me. I don't think I'm the only one
> who had the impression there was not going to be a 64-bit Mac Server version
> ever.
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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Jack des Bouillons
I'd like to be able to run a 64 bit 4D Server on our MacMini, running O/S
10.6.x...

Jack

On 9/6/11 4:14 PM, "Jeffrey Kain" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> How big is the Mac server market anyway (for large 64-bit servers), especially
> since xServe has been discontinued and Mac Pros are only occasionally
> refreshed?


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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Joshua Fletcher
I don't think there would really be a point to running a 64-bit 4D Server
on a Mac Mini.  The default configurations come in 2 GB or 4 GB RAM.
There's absolutely no reason to run a 64-bit app with that small of an
amount of RAM.

According to Apple the maximum RAM for a Mac Mini is 8GB, which means
32-bit 4D Server will be able to access a full 4GB of virtual memory.
It's true the 64-bit server would be able to access more virtual memory
but with only 8 GB total RAM it doesn't leave a ton of head room for the
OS (i.e. System cache).  With only 8 GB total it's likely thrashing issues
would occur if 4D was configured to use more than the 4GB memory
accessible in 32-bit mode.

The 64-bit server should be considered in situations where there's 16 GB+
total RAM on the machine IMO.  Then, depending on data file size, it may
be necessary to have even more RAM.

This Tech Note might be worth a read:

http://kb.4d.com/search/assetid=76103

In fact I'd forgotten it already explains the 64-bit Mac situation:

"As explained at 4D Summit 2009, the situation is Apple decided late in
the game to drop support for 64-bit
Carbon applications after promising this would not happen. 4D Server is one
such application. Thus 4D Server needs to be migrated to use Apple¹s
supported
64-bit API. This is not a trivial change so rather than risk the stability
of 4D v12
by making such a drastic change we decided to do the Windows version first
(as
the transition was far easier). Remember the materials for 4D v11 SQL that
said
we were 64-bit ready? That work has paid off in the form of an easy
migration to
a 64-bit executable on Windows."

-Josh

On 9/6/11 4:46 PM, "Jack Des Bouillons"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>I'd like to be able to run a 64 bit 4D Server on our MacMini, running O/S
>10.6.x...





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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Wayne Stewart
Josh,

Although the official RAM limit is 8 GB.  You can install 16 GB:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/1333DDR3S16P/

Combined with SSD drives this would make a very nice 4D Server.

Of course, you could install Boot Camp as well and run under Windows
so you can get 64 bit now!

Cheers,

Wayne


On 7 September 2011 10:11, Joshua Fletcher <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't think there would really be a point to running a 64-bit 4D Server
> on a Mac Mini.  The default configurations come in 2 GB or 4 GB RAM.
> There's absolutely no reason to run a 64-bit app with that small of an
> amount of RAM.
>
> According to Apple the maximum RAM for a Mac Mini is 8GB, which means
> 32-bit 4D Server will be able to access a full 4GB of virtual memory.
> It's true the 64-bit server would be able to access more virtual memory
> but with only 8 GB total RAM it doesn't leave a ton of head room for the
> OS (i.e. System cache).  With only 8 GB total it's likely thrashing issues
> would occur if 4D was configured to use more than the 4GB memory
> accessible in 32-bit mode.
>
> The 64-bit server should be considered in situations where there's 16 GB+
> total RAM on the machine IMO.  Then, depending on data file size, it may
> be necessary to have even more RAM.
>
> This Tech Note might be worth a read:
>
> http://kb.4d.com/search/assetid=76103
>
> In fact I'd forgotten it already explains the 64-bit Mac situation:
>
> "As explained at 4D Summit 2009, the situation is Apple decided late in
> the game to drop support for 64-bit
> Carbon applications after promising this would not happen. 4D Server is one
> such application. Thus 4D Server needs to be migrated to use Apple¹s
> supported
> 64-bit API. This is not a trivial change so rather than risk the stability
> of 4D v12
> by making such a drastic change we decided to do the Windows version first
> (as
> the transition was far easier). Remember the materials for 4D v11 SQL that
> said
> we were 64-bit ready? That work has paid off in the form of an easy
> migration to
> a 64-bit executable on Windows."
>
> -Josh
>
> On 9/6/11 4:46 PM, "Jack Des Bouillons"
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>I'd like to be able to run a 64 bit 4D Server on our MacMini, running O/S
>>10.6.x...
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Joshua Fletcher
Hi Wayne,

Either way, you're in "unsupported" territory (I mean from the vendors,
not 4D) so I'd question the wisdom of putting a customer's server in such
a situation.  But you're right, even if it's a Mac-only shop there's
always the Bootcamp option.  Thanks for the reminder!

-Josh

On 9/6/11 5:22 PM, "Wayne Stewart" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Josh,
>
>Although the official RAM limit is 8 GB.  You can install 16 GB:
>http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/1333DDR3S16P/
>
>Combined with SSD drives this would make a very nice 4D Server.
>
>Of course, you could install Boot Camp as well and run under Windows
>so you can get 64 bit now!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Wayne





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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Peter Jakobsson-2
In reply to this post by Wayne Stewart
I just have a quick question for the people running the 64 bit server.

Is the only advantage that it can use more RAM ?

Or is it the case that 4D actually shovels the data around internally  
at double the speed (because it moves 64 bits with each clock cycle  
instead of 32).

Regards

Peter

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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Jeffrey Kain (Old)
The only advantage is more RAM. In fact, if I remember last year's Summit,
Thibaud said individual operations may be _slightly_ slower on 64-bit, but
the win is in increased overall throughput due to less cache thrashing when
you're running up against the maximum memory limits imposed by the 32-bit
server.

I think a lot of people think that a 64-bit application is automatically
twice as fast as a 32-bit application. It's funny to read "reviews" of
32-bit applications like Microsoft Word or web browsers when the reviewer
complains that the app is only 32-bit. What kind of web pages or Word
documents are they editing that they need >4GB (or 2GB) of memory?

Jeff

On 9/6/11 8:30 PM, "Peter Jakobsson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is the only advantage that it can use more RAM ?
>
> Or is it the case that 4D actually shovels the data around internally
> at double the speed (because it moves 64 bits with each clock cycle
> instead of 32).

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Re: v12 64 bit server - is anyone deploying it?

Peter Jakobsson-2

On 7 Sep 2011, at 02:38, Jeffrey Kain wrote:

> I think a lot of people think that a 64-bit application is  
> automatically
> twice as fast as a 32-bit application

Yes - I was one of them.

I just thought that since, for each clock cycle, twice as much data  
gets moved around, everything must simply go twice as fast. Clearly not.

A symptom of me not having gone to 'computer school' :)

Thanks for the reply.

Peter

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