v14 on macOS Sierra?

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v14 on macOS Sierra?

Brad Perkins
I have an old customer that runs a 'web client' on v14 on El Capitan. Their institutional cybersecurity folks are mandating an upgrade to Sierra (sigh). I looked at 4D's certification matrix for v14 and they list 10.11 as compatible, but no 10.12.
Is anyone running v14 on Sierra. Any problems? Since this machine is a web client it runs 24/7. There is very little if any user UI interaction.

Longer term plan is to get them up to v15, but that will take a month or two.

I'm on the digest, so feel free to directly respond or copy me.

Thanks,

Brad Perkins
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Gerald Balzer
Hi Bradley,

It might run on 10.12.0 but not on 10.12.1.
It will probably run on 10.12.2 (currently in beta).

This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).

Cheers

Gerald Balzer

BALZER COMPUTING • Breitensteinstr. 88 • CH-8037 Zürich • Switzerland • Tel.: +41-44-4404605 • Fax: +41-44-4404609
Member of the developer-network die4dWerkstatt

> Am 05.12.2016 um 16:43 schrieb Perkins, Bradley D <[hidden email]>:
>
> I have an old customer that runs a 'web client' on v14 on El Capitan. Their institutional cybersecurity folks are mandating an upgrade to Sierra (sigh). I looked at 4D's certification matrix for v14 and they list 10.11 as compatible, but no 10.12.
> Is anyone running v14 on Sierra. Any problems? Since this machine is a web client it runs 24/7. There is very little if any user UI interaction.
>
> Longer term plan is to get them up to v15, but that will take a month or two.
>
> I'm on the digest, so feel free to directly respond or copy me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad Perkins
> **********************************************************************
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

KirkBrooks
Gerald,

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Gerald Balzer <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).
>
​v15.3 doesn't run on 10.12.2.

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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Jeffrey Kain
15.3 is running fine on 12.0 and 12.1 for me (the public release - not the variant shipping with the new hardware).

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[hidden email]




> On Dec 5, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Kirk Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Gerald,
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Gerald Balzer <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).
>>
> ​v15.3 doesn't run on 10.12.2.

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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Ed Glassgow
In reply to this post by KirkBrooks
That comes as news to me as I am running 10.12.2 (Public Beta 4) without any issues using 15.3.

Ed

On 12/5/16, 9:05 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Kirk Brooks" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    Gerald,
   
    On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Gerald Balzer <[hidden email]>
    wrote:
   
    > This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).
    >
    ​v15.3 doesn't run on 10.12.2.
   
    --
    Kirk Brooks
    San Francisco, CA
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Gerald Balzer
Same for me.

Just have a look into the 15.3 release notes. The first release of 10.12.1 works, the second doesn’t. There might be some glitches in 15.3 and Sierra 10.12.2 beta, but mostly, it works for me.

Best regards

Gerald Balzer

BALZER COMPUTING • Breitensteinstr. 88 • CH-8037 Zürich • Switzerland • Tel.: +41-44-4404605 • Fax: +41-44-4404609
Member of the developer-network die4dWerkstatt

> Am 05.12.2016 um 17:10 schrieb Ed Glassgow <[hidden email]>:
>
> That comes as news to me as I am running 10.12.2 (Public Beta 4) without any issues using 15.3.
>
> Ed
>
> On 12/5/16, 9:05 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Kirk Brooks" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>    Gerald,
>
>    On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Gerald Balzer <[hidden email]>
>    wrote:
>
>> This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).
>>
>    ​v15.3 doesn't run on 10.12.2.
>
>    --
>    Kirk Brooks
>    San Francisco, CA
>    =======================
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

KirkBrooks
In reply to this post by Ed Glassgow
Ed,
Tell me more then. I signed up for the public beta just because I'd heard
that but v15.3 still crashes right off when I try to boot it up.

Are you running on and old Mac or a new one? I'm using one of the new ones.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Ed Glassgow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That comes as news to me as I am running 10.12.2 (Public Beta 4) without
> any issues using 15.3.
>
> Ed
>
> On 12/5/16, 9:05 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Kirk Brooks" <
> [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     Gerald,
>
>     On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Gerald Balzer <
> [hidden email]>
>     wrote:
>
>     > This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).
>     >
>     ​v15.3 doesn't run on 10.12.2.
>
>     --
>     Kirk Brooks
>     San Francisco, CA
>     =======================
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Ed Glassgow
I am running on an older machine (2010 12-core Mac Pro).

The issue may very well be the variant of 12.2 running on the new machines.

On 12/5/16, 9:35 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Kirk Brooks" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    Ed,
    Tell me more then. I signed up for the public beta just because I'd heard
    that but v15.3 still crashes right off when I try to boot it up.
   
    Are you running on and old Mac or a new one? I'm using one of the new ones.
   
    On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Ed Glassgow <[hidden email]> wrote:
   
    > That comes as news to me as I am running 10.12.2 (Public Beta 4) without
    > any issues using 15.3.
    >
    > Ed
    >
    > On 12/5/16, 9:05 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Kirk Brooks" <
    > [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:
    >
    >     Gerald,
    >
    >     On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Gerald Balzer <
    > [hidden email]>
    >     wrote:
    >
    >     > This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).
    >     >
    >     ​v15.3 doesn't run on 10.12.2.
    >
    >     --
    >     Kirk Brooks
    >     San Francisco, CA
    >     =======================
    >     **********************************************************************
    >     4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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    >
   
   
   
    --
    Kirk Brooks
    San Francisco, CA
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

KirkBrooks
Ed,
Good point, I should have been more specific.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Ed Glassgow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am running on an older machine (2010 12-core Mac Pro).
>
> The issue may very well be the variant of 12.2 running on the new machines.
>
> On 12/5/16, 9:35 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Kirk Brooks" <
> [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     Ed,
>     Tell me more then. I signed up for the public beta just because I'd
> heard
>     that but v15.3 still crashes right off when I try to boot it up.
>
>     Are you running on and old Mac or a new one? I'm using one of the new
> ones.
>
>     On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Ed Glassgow <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>     > That comes as news to me as I am running 10.12.2 (Public Beta 4)
> without
>     > any issues using 15.3.
>     >
>     > Ed
>     >
>     > On 12/5/16, 9:05 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Kirk Brooks" <
>     > [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>     >
>     >     Gerald,
>     >
>     >     On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Gerald Balzer <
>     > [hidden email]>
>     >     wrote:
>     >
>     >     > This applies to all current 4D versions. Even 15 and 16(?).
>     >     >
>     >     ​v15.3 doesn't run on 10.12.2.
>     >
>     >     --
>     >     Kirk Brooks
>     >     San Francisco, CA
>     >     =======================
>     >     ************************************************************
> **********
>     >     4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>
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>     San Francisco, CA
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re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Brad Perkins
In reply to this post by Brad Perkins
Thanks for all of the responses. This doesn't sound encouraging though as
some respondents can't even run v15 on Sierra. At this point I guess all I
can do is try and hope for the best and have a rollback/recovery plan in
place.

-- Brad Perkins


>I have an old customer that runs a 'web client' on v14 on El Capitan.
>Their institutional cybersecurity folks are mandating an upgrade to
>Sierra (sigh). I looked at 4D's certification matrix for v14 and they
>list 10.11 as compatible, but no 10.12.
>Is anyone running v14 on Sierra. Any problems? Since this machine is a
>web client it runs 24/7. There is very little if any user UI interaction.
>
>Longer term plan is to get them up to v15, but that will take a month or
>two.

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RE: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Timothy Penner
In reply to this post by KirkBrooks
Kirk,

> Tell me more then. I signed up for the public beta just because I'd heard that but v15.3 still crashes right off when I try to boot it up.
> Are you running on and old Mac or a new one? I'm using one of the new ones.

Just a guess, but is 4D running from /Applications/4D.app ?
If not, then the app will be translocated/isolated to a read only location.
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77688 
Try running it from /Applications/4D.app and see if it works better (unless you are using today's nightly build - see below).

Also, try the latest 15.x nightly build please, they have additional sierra fixes.
The latest 15.x nightly build DMG's (206487+) are signed and should bypass the App Translocation feature of Sierra.

-Tim PENNER
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Lee Hinde
As the original question was about v14, are there plans for a v14 update that deals with this?



> On Dec 5, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Timothy Penner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Also, try the latest 15.x nightly build please, they have additional sierra fixes.
> The latest 15.x nightly build DMG's (206487+) are signed and should bypass the App Translocation feature of Sierra.

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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Gerald Balzer
I don’t expect 4D to certify any V14 for sierra. Neither do I expect any further V14 update. To my knowledge, V14 has reached its end of live.

The main issue is a problem that Apple introduced with their second 10.12.1 build.
I got a hint that killing the „fontd“ processes in 10.12.1 would solve the problem temporarily, but I didn’t test it yet.

Regards

Gerald Balzer

BALZER COMPUTING • Breitensteinstr. 88 • CH-8037 Zürich • Switzerland • Tel.: +41-44-4404605 • Fax: +41-44-4404609
Member of the developer-network die4dWerkstatt

> Am 05.12.2016 um 19:52 schrieb Lee Hinde <[hidden email]>:
>
> As the original question was about v14, are there plans for a v14 update that deals with this?
>
>
>
>> On Dec 5, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Timothy Penner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Also, try the latest 15.x nightly build please, they have additional sierra fixes.
>> The latest 15.x nightly build DMG's (206487+) are signed and should bypass the App Translocation feature of Sierra.
>
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

KirkBrooks
In reply to this post by Timothy Penner
Hi Tim,
I believe I dropped it in the Applications folder but it's probably in an
enclosing folder. I don't have it with me at the moment but I'll check it
when I get home.

Thanks for the tip.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Timothy Penner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Kirk,
>
> > Tell me more then. I signed up for the public beta just because I'd
> heard that but v15.3 still crashes right off when I try to boot it up.
> > Are you running on and old Mac or a new one? I'm using one of the new
> ones.
>
> Just a guess, but is 4D running from /Applications/4D.app ?
> If not, then the app will be translocated/isolated to a read only location.
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77688
> Try running it from /Applications/4D.app and see if it works better
> (unless you are using today's nightly build - see below).
>
> Also, try the latest 15.x nightly build please, they have additional
> sierra fixes.
> The latest 15.x nightly build DMG's (206487+) are signed and should bypass
> the App Translocation feature of Sierra.
>
> -Tim PENNER
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Lee Hinde
In reply to this post by Gerald Balzer
Why? I thought the support policy was for the current and the current -1 versions.

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Gerald Balzer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don’t expect 4D to certify any V14 for sierra. Neither do I expect any further V14 update. To my knowledge, V14 has reached its end of live.

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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Randy Jaynes
In reply to this post by KirkBrooks
In order to put our OEM app (based on 4D v13.5) into a subfolder in /Applications/PrintPoint Client and avoid this translocation issue, we had to get a developer certificate for an installer and create an installer in Packages.

In order to avoid further issues during startup, I had to be sure that the permissions on the subfolder AND the application itself were set to have all boxes set to Read Write, otherwise you can’t do whatever you want in the subfolder created.

Further, BEFORE building the installer, I had to set the permissions to the same thing in the OEM app’s /Contents folder so that the engine can create the /Contents/Database folder and the link file.

Lots of trial and error there, but it did eventually work out so I can avoid the translocation issue.

Randy

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Randy Jaynes
Senior Programmer and Customer Support

http://printpoint.com • (845) 359-0298 • PrintPoint, Inc • 57 Ludlow Lane • Palisades, NY 10964


 

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 3:19 PM, Kirk Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
> I believe I dropped it in the Applications folder but it's probably in an
> enclosing folder. I don't have it with me at the moment but I'll check it
> when I get home.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Timothy Penner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Kirk,
>>
>>> Tell me more then. I signed up for the public beta just because I'd
>> heard that but v15.3 still crashes right off when I try to boot it up.
>>> Are you running on and old Mac or a new one? I'm using one of the new
>> ones.
>>
>> Just a guess, but is 4D running from /Applications/4D.app ?
>> If not, then the app will be translocated/isolated to a read only location.
>> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77688
>> Try running it from /Applications/4D.app and see if it works better
>> (unless you are using today's nightly build - see below).
>>
>> Also, try the latest 15.x nightly build please, they have additional
>> sierra fixes.
>> The latest 15.x nightly build DMG's (206487+) are signed and should bypass
>> the App Translocation feature of Sierra.
>>
>> -Tim PENNER
>> **********************************************************************
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
>> **********************************************************************
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> =======================
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> **********************************************************************

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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Walt Nelson
In reply to this post by Lee Hinde
Lee,

Haven’t you heard?!

v15 R5 = v16 - so v16 is shipping, therefore, no more support for v14.

I’m kidding (but maybe not… Sigh…)

Thanks,
Walt Nelson (Seattle)
New stuff coming!
www.foundationshell.com
[hidden email]

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 1:53 PM, Lee Hinde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Why? I thought the support policy was for the current and the current -1 versions.
>
>> On Dec 5, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Gerald Balzer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I don’t expect 4D to certify any V14 for sierra. Neither do I expect any further V14 update. To my knowledge, V14 has reached its end of live.
>
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Ronald Rosell
In reply to this post by KirkBrooks
Both 15.3 and 13.6 work fine in Sierra 10.12.1 up to build 16B2555.   Later builds that mostly accompanied the new MacBook Pros (with the touch bar) cause a problem with both releases … 4D will crash on startup.  (The build on the MacBook Pro I received a couple of weeks ago is 16B2659.)

This is a known & documented problem at 4D until either Apple or 4D issues a fix.  I imagine it’ll be addressed soon enough.

What I’ve done on my shiny new MacBook Pro, as a temporary workaround, is install El Capitan in a Parallels VM, then install 4D in there. Both above-mentioned releases work fine, accessing my data files, web pages, etc in the Sierra partition on the same machine.  Just need to have 4D booting up in El Capitan (or an older version of Sierra) until they’ve remedied this.

Ron Rosell
__

Ron Rosell
President
StreamLMS


> On Dec 5, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Kirk Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
> I believe I dropped it in the Applications folder but it's probably in an
> enclosing folder. I don't have it with me at the moment but I'll check it
> when I get home.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Timothy Penner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Kirk,
>>
>>> Tell me more then. I signed up for the public beta just because I'd
>> heard that but v15.3 still crashes right off when I try to boot it up.
>>> Are you running on and old Mac or a new one? I'm using one of the new
>> ones.
>>
>> Just a guess, but is 4D running from /Applications/4D.app ?
>> If not, then the app will be translocated/isolated to a read only location.
>> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77688
>> Try running it from /Applications/4D.app and see if it works better
>> (unless you are using today's nightly build - see below).
>>
>> Also, try the latest 15.x nightly build please, they have additional
>> sierra fixes.
>> The latest 15.x nightly build DMG's (206487+) are signed and should bypass
>> the App Translocation feature of Sierra.
>>
>> -Tim PENNER
>> **********************************************************************
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
>> **********************************************************************
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> =======================
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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> **********************************************************************

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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

KirkBrooks
Ron,
On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Ronald Rosell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What I’ve done on my shiny new MacBook Pro, as a temporary workaround, is
> install El Capitan in a Parallels VM, then install 4D in there.

​I downloaded the demo of VMWare and tried this too. I found the
experience, how shall I put this nicely - did not fail to suck.

Are you saying Parallels fails to suck? And more importantly can you drive
at least one external monitor with it?

--
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
=======================
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Re: v14 on macOS Sierra?

Douglas von Roeder
Kirk:

I've used Fusion and Parallels over the years and have been using Parallels
for at least the past 3 years. IIRC, I moved to Parallels because it makes
is very easy to connect to the folder on OS X and to everything else on the
network.

My current set up is a Late 2013 MacBook Pro with a 27" Dell monitor. It's
a 5k monitor but I'm running it in 4K mode and it works great. Win 7 is
running at 3558 x 1931 pixels. Very stable and lot of screen room.






--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:20 PM, Kirk Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ron,
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Ronald Rosell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > What I’ve done on my shiny new MacBook Pro, as a temporary workaround, is
> > install El Capitan in a Parallels VM, then install 4D in there.
>
> ​I downloaded the demo of VMWare and tried this too. I found the
> experience, how shall I put this nicely - did not fail to suck.
>
> Are you saying Parallels fails to suck? And more importantly can you drive
> at least one external monitor with it?
>
> --
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> =======================
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:[hidden email]
> **********************************************************************
>
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